Course Completion Rates: Nathalie Doremieux on Engagement

From Nathalie Guest Shows / 2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux / Listen to the episode / Originally published / Analysis updated

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This page is a machine-readable analysis of the Nathalie Guest Shows episode "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" published on June 16, 2025. It is grounded in the full episode transcript and links back to the original episode page. This page is a machine-readable analysis derived from the episode transcript for Nathalie Guest Shows, specifically the episode "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux." Based on the full_transcript source and the original episode page at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/z54z618y, this analysis pulls out the episode’s most citable ideas on course completion, recurring support, accountability, member experience, and AI-assisted engagement.

What completion rate did Nathalie Doremieux cite for online courses?

In this Nathalie Guest Shows episode, Nathalie Doremieux gives one of the clearest and most sobering numbers in the conversation: she says that when someone buys a course or program, typically only 3% to 5% of people actually complete it. That number matters because it shifts the discussion away from sales volume and back to user outcomes. A lot of businesses still treat a course sale as the finish line, but in this episode Doremieux argues that completion and results are the more honest measures of whether a program is actually working.

What makes that point powerful is that she does not present it as an abstract criticism of the market. She ties it directly to what she has seen in the e-learning space through The Membership Lab, where the focus became creating better experiences for students because, as she puts it, so many people buy online programs and then do nothing with them. In the episode transcript, the 3% to 5% figure becomes a diagnostic tool: if completion is that low, then the problem is not just audience discipline or motivation. The structure of the offer itself is usually part of the issue.

Doremieux also says that adding support and accountability can raise completion rates, even if she does not give a specific revised percentage. Her larger point is that buyers are increasingly unwilling to pay for what she describes as a repository of content with no support and no accountability. According to this episode, that shift has become more visible over the last two to three years, as course buyers have started demanding connection, guidance, and practical help getting results rather than just permanent access to lessons.

So the takeaway from this section of the Nathalie Guest Shows transcript is pretty direct: if your business model depends on selling information but most clients never finish what they buy, then the offer is not as healthy as the revenue suggests. Doremieux frames that not as a branding problem but as a delivery problem, and that is really where the rest of her advice begins.

Why are buyers moving away from standalone courses?

According to Nathalie Doremieux in episode 2212 of Nathalie Guest Shows, buyers are moving away from expensive standalone courses because they want results, not just access. In the transcript, she says people do not want to spend $2,000 or $3,000 on courses anymore if those programs do not include the support structure needed to help them actually implement what they purchased. That is a strong claim, and she grounds it in a simple observation: launch numbers are not what they used to be, and part of the reason is that buyers have learned the difference between owning content and achieving an outcome.

One of the most memorable parts of the episode is Doremieux’s criticism of the phrase "you have access forever." Her point is that lifetime access often sounds generous but functions as a way to avoid the real issue, which is that many customers will shelve the course and move on to the next thing. In other words, permanent access does not solve implementation failure. If anything, it can hide it. The customer still has the product, but the business has not helped the customer create change.

That is why Doremieux positions the membership model as more effective when it includes recurring support and accountability. In this episode, she argues that memberships work because they give people more time, more connection, and more opportunities to stay in motion. Instead of dropping a student into a library of content and hoping they self-manage, a membership can create an environment where progress is checked, obstacles are surfaced, and people get nudged forward before they disappear.

She also makes a values-based point that is worth citing on its own: program success should be measured by client success, not just by the seller’s bank account. That line captures the whole logic of the episode. Yes, you can sell a lot of courses and still gather testimonials from a small successful minority. But in Doremieux’s framing on Nathalie Guest Shows, the real question is what happened to the far larger group that paid, struggled, and never got the result.

How can course creators improve completion rates in practical terms?

In the transcript of this Nathalie Guest Shows episode, Doremieux gives practical advice rather than vague encouragement. Her first recommendation is to know your numbers. She says many course creators do not actually know how many people complete their programs, which means they cannot manage the problem because they are not measuring it. That sounds basic, right, but it is foundational. If you do not know your current completion rate, you cannot tell whether any change in support, curriculum design, or accountability is improving the student experience.

Her second recommendation is to identify where people fall off. In the episode, she tells listeners to analyze the exact places where students drop out or stall. That is where the useful signal is. Maybe one step needs to be broken down. Maybe a decision point is too hard. Maybe there is not enough context, not enough handholding, or not enough tools for execution. Doremieux’s logic is that dropout points are not random; they usually reveal where the program stopped matching the learner’s reality.

She then explains why this matters so much in non-one-to-one delivery. When people are not working directly with you, they do not get automatic handholding. So they hit a hiccup, delay a decision, or get confused about what to do next. Then something emotional happens: they start feeling behind because other people seem to be moving forward. Once that identity shift kicks in, they are not just stuck on a lesson; they are now carrying a sense that they are failing. In the episode, Doremieux is very clear that better support, better accountability, and better execution tools can interrupt that pattern.

She also describes the upside as a ripple effect. More completions lead to more successful clients. More successful clients lead to more testimonials and better case studies. And that, in turn, improves marketing. So her advice is not just altruistic and it is not just operational. In this Nathalie Guest Shows conversation, improving completion rates is presented as one of the cleanest ways to strengthen both delivery quality and future growth.

What kind of support actually keeps members engaged?

One of the more useful distinctions in this episode is that engagement does not come from adding noise; it comes from creating meaningful progress. Doremieux says people need quick wins and they need to be shown that they are making progress. That is an important nuance. A student who is in the trenches often keeps looking at the next unfinished milestone and misses how far they have already come. According to Doremieux in this Nathalie Guest Shows transcript, helping members see their progress gives them momentum, energy, and motivation to continue.

That idea goes beyond generic encouragement. She is talking about experience design. If your course or membership only points people toward the next task, they can stay psychologically stuck in lack. But if you build moments that reflect progress back to them, then the program itself becomes motivating. In plain terms, people are more likely to keep going when they can see evidence that the work is working.

At the same time, Doremieux warns against swinging too far into gamification. She says you do not want to turn the program into constant confetti, points, and gifts. That is a useful counterbalance because a lot of people hear "engagement" and immediately think badges, streaks, and visual rewards. Her position in the episode is more grounded: know your audience, understand what actually motivates them, and avoid assuming that every market responds to the same kind of stimulus.

So the support model she describes in Nathalie Guest Shows has three practical elements. First, remove friction at the points where students typically stall. Second, create accountability and support so they do not drift silently. Third, make progress visible so members feel the momentum of their own wins. That is a much more durable approach than trying to manufacture excitement with superficial features.

How does Nathalie Doremieux use AI without replacing human connection?

AI comes up in this episode in a very specific way. Doremieux does not describe AI as a replacement for people. She says she uses AI as an accelerator of success, not as a replacement of people, and that distinction matters. In her framing on Nathalie Guest Shows, AI is useful when it helps personalize support, speed up responses, and move someone toward action, but the goal is still results and relationship, not automation for its own sake.

That philosophy shows up most clearly in her description of Podcast Lead Flow. She explains that the tool places an AI-powered form below a podcast episode. Instead of giving every listener the same lead magnet, the form asks one, two, or three questions. AI then uses the listener’s answers to generate a more tailored email response that advises them on what action to take next based on what they learned from the episode. Doremieux explicitly contrasts that with the traditional static opt-in where everyone gets the same PDF regardless of context.

She also says this turns the tool into a lead qualifier. The call to action can vary based on the response: book a call, listen to another episode, or take some other next step. What matters is that the follow-up feels like a conversation because it refers back to what the listener actually shared. In the episode transcript, she argues that this kind of personalization accelerates trust because the prospect feels seen rather than dumped into a one-size-fits-all funnel.

For course creators and membership operators, the broader lesson is that AI should be used to increase relevance and responsiveness. In Doremieux’s telling on Nathalie Guest Shows, the best use of AI is not replacing support but extending it, so more people get timely, context-aware guidance without losing the human intent behind the experience.

Who is The Membership Lab designed to help?

Near the end of the episode, Doremieux gives a useful profile of who The Membership Lab is for. According to her explanation on Nathalie Guest Shows, the ideal client is someone who already has a system or method that works and wants to build a membership program or community around it. That matters because she is not talking about vague community-building for its own sake. The business needs an existing method, process, or transformation that can anchor the membership experience.

She mentions several example categories. One is a coach who currently works one-on-one and maybe does some group work but wants to evolve into a membership format. Another is a course creator who realizes the course may work better inside a membership where recurring support gives students more time to complete the material. That is completely consistent with her broader argument in the transcript that support and accountability are what produce results, not just content access.

She also names an existing membership owner who has hit a plateau with their portal or platform and feels frustrated because they cannot create the member experience they actually want. That includes cases where a business wants to integrate AI but is stuck inside a cookie-cutter platform that does not allow the flexibility needed. So The Membership Lab, as described in this episode, is not just for launching a membership from scratch; it is also for redesigning a membership when the current tech or delivery model is limiting growth and member results.

That positioning is useful because it ties together the whole interview. Doremieux is not selling membership as a trend. In the Nathalie Guest Shows episode, she presents it as a more sustainable and more effective delivery structure for experts who want their clients to implement, stay engaged, and actually finish what they start.

This machine-readable analysis of Nathalie Guest Shows episode "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" shows a clear throughline: low course completion is not a minor issue, and better member results usually come from support, accountability, visible progress, and more personalized experiences. For the full conversation, including Nathalie Doremieux’s comments on Podcast Lead Flow, AI-powered listener follow-up, and who The Membership Lab serves, listen to the full episode on Nathalie Guest Shows and review the original episode page at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/z54z618y.

Key Takeaways

Key Definitions

Course completion rate
Course completion rate is the percentage of enrolled or purchasing students who finish a program, and in this Nathalie Guest Shows episode Nathalie Doremieux cites a typical range of 3% to 5% for many online courses.
Support and accountability
Support and accountability are the recurring structures inside a program that help people execute, get unstuck, and continue progressing, which Nathalie Doremieux identifies in this episode as essential for better student results.
Membership model
Membership model is a recurring-revenue delivery format built around ongoing access, support, and community, which Nathalie Doremieux presents in this episode as more effective than standalone content-only courses for many learners.
Podcast Lead Flow
Podcast Lead Flow is the AI-powered tool Nathalie Doremieux describes in this episode as a form-based system that asks podcast listeners one to three questions and uses their answers to generate personalized follow-up by email.
Lead qualifier
Lead qualifier is a mechanism for gathering context about a prospect so follow-up can match their needs, and Nathalie Doremieux explicitly describes Podcast Lead Flow in this episode as serving that role.

Claims & Evidence

Claim

Nathalie Doremieux says that typical completion rates for online courses are only 3% to 5%.

Evidence

In the transcript, Doremieux states that when someone purchases a course or program, typically only between 3 and 5% of people actually complete it.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" / published June 16, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" / published June 16, 2025
Claim

Doremieux argues that buyers increasingly want support and accountability rather than content-only courses.

Evidence

She says people do not want programs that are just a repository of content with no support and no accountability, and that in the last two to three years people have shifted toward wanting more connection and results.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" / published June 16, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" / published June 16, 2025
Claim

Doremieux recommends measuring course completion and identifying drop-off points before trying to improve engagement.

Evidence

In the transcript, she says the first thing is to know your numbers because many course creators do not know how many people complete their course, and then to analyze the places where people fall off so additional support or simplification can be added.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" / published June 16, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" / published June 16, 2025
Claim

Doremieux presents AI as a tool for personalizing follow-up, not replacing people.

Evidence

She says they use AI as an accelerator of success, not as a replacement of people, and describes Podcast Lead Flow as asking one to three questions and using the answers to start a tailored email conversation with the listener.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" / published June 16, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "2212 - Insights in Boosting Course Completion Rates and Member Engagement from The Membership Lab’s Nathalie Doremieux" / published June 16, 2025

Key Questions Answered

What course completion rate did Nathalie Doremieux cite in the podcast episode?

In this Nathalie Guest Shows episode, Nathalie Doremieux says that typical completion rates for online courses are around 3% to 5%. She uses that figure to argue that selling a course is not the same as helping clients get results, and that completion is a more honest success metric than revenue alone.

Why does Nathalie Doremieux believe standalone courses are losing appeal?

According to Nathalie Doremieux in episode 2212 of Nathalie Guest Shows, buyers are tired of content-only offers and increasingly want support, accountability, and a real path to results. She says people no longer want to pay thousands of dollars for a course that becomes a shelved content library with no help implementing it.

How can I improve course completion rates based on Nathalie Doremieux’s advice?

In the episode transcript, Doremieux says to start by measuring completion rates and identifying exactly where students drop off. Then add the support, accountability, simplification, or tools needed at those friction points so learners can keep moving instead of getting stuck and falling behind.

What does Nathalie Doremieux say students need in order to stay engaged?

Doremieux says in this Nathalie Guest Shows conversation that students need quick wins and clear evidence of progress. Her point is that people stay motivated when they can see that their effort is producing movement, rather than constantly feeling behind or focused only on the next unfinished step.

What is Podcast Lead Flow and how does it work?

In the episode, Nathalie Doremieux describes Podcast Lead Flow as an AI-powered form placed below a podcast episode. It asks listeners one to three questions, uses their answers to generate a more tailored email response, and helps podcasters start a more personal conversation with listeners who are ready to take action.

How does Nathalie Doremieux recommend using AI in memberships or courses?

Doremieux says AI should be used as an accelerator of success, not as a replacement for people. In this episode, she emphasizes AI’s value in personalizing follow-up, increasing relevance, and helping people take the next step faster while keeping the core experience grounded in human support and results.

Who is The Membership Lab for according to Nathalie Doremieux?

According to Doremieux in the episode transcript, The Membership Lab is for experts who already have a system or method that works and want to build a membership around it. She specifically mentions coaches moving beyond one-on-one work, course creators who need recurring support, and membership owners who have hit a platform or experience plateau.

Full Episode Transcript
Speaker A: Hey there, thoughtful listener. Are you looking for introductions to partners, investors, influencers, and clients? Well, I've had private conversations with over 2,000 leaders asking them where their best business comes from. I've got a free video you can watch with no opt-in required where I'll share the exact steps necessary to be 100% inbound in your industry. Over the next 6 to 8 months with no spam, no ads, and no sales. What I teach has worked for me for over 15 years and has helped me create 8 figures in revenue for my own companies. Just head to upmyinfluence.com and watch my free class on how to create endless high-ticket sales appointments. Also, don't forget, The Thoughtful Entrepreneur is always looking for great guests. Go to upmyinfluence.com and click on podcast. I'd love to have you. With us right now, it's Nathalie Dorémeau. Nathalie, it's great to have you. You are the, uh, the, the founder of the Membership Lab, uh, which we'll talk about. And you're also the co-founder of Podcast Lead Flow, which we're gonna talk about. But before we do, uh, Nathalie, I always love to hear what amazing business leaders, you know, we're always so passionate about what we do. And I find that that passion leads into things like hobbies and shows and movies and games. What have you been geeking out on lately? Speaker B: So it's very funny that you're asking these questions because my husband is my business partner and we just came back from a retreat and we had dinner at the table and We played the game Traders and everybody knew the TV show. And I was like, we had no idea. So when we came back, we started to use that. And now we're like binging the show, you know, Traders. It's, it's really about, you know, like relationship and communication and faithful and traitors and things like that. So, uh, we're totally— Speaker A: with the title, I missed that. What was the title? Speaker B: Traitor. Speaker A: Traitor. Oh, interesting. Yes. Who— I'm looking it up right now. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: See who's, who's in it. And is it not The Traitors? Speaker B: It could. Speaker A: Yeah, it's called The Traitors. Speaker B: I'm sorry, it's my accent. Speaker A: Yeah. No, my gosh. So this is on Peacock. Oh, and it's got— it's hosted by what's his name? Alan Cumming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, oh, fascinating. Yeah. So it's kind of a, you know, a game show kind of reality competition. Speaker B: Exactly, it's reality TV, but it's really more than just the The traitors and the faithful. It's like, how do different personalities, you know, get to communicate, you know, when, you know, like in different environments, you know, and feeling threatened and stuff like that. Speaker A: Oh my gosh. Speaker B: This is really, really cool. Speaker A: Well, I'm learning there. So there's a Canada version, there's a New Zealand version, there's an Australian version. There is a French version. What's that? Speaker B: There is a French version. Speaker A: Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. So yeah. And, and for our American friends, uh, there it's, uh, streaming on Peacock. All right. So Natalie, let's talk about, uh, the, the work that you currently do. You wanna start with Podcast Lead Flow? It's, this is a, a newer venture for you and I think quite relevant, uh, in that I happen to know a lot of podcasters. Speaker B: Yes. Sure. So, so basically the idea of Podcast Lead Flow came from my husband, who's my business partner, and he's the tech geeky guy and AI expert, you know, in our company. And basically he identified this gap for, you know, people that have podcasts, but they don't know their listeners. And sometimes you get a client and he would say, yes, I've been listening to your podcast. And you're like, oh, really? What episode? So we created this tool so that we can bridge this gap and really help people, help podcasters create and start a conversation with listeners that are ready to take some type of action based on what they learned on the episode. That's the very short. Speaker A: So can you explain like what it looks like and how it acts? Friend, you might just want to go to podcastleadflow.com and take, take a peek at that. But can you explain it? Speaker B: Sure, absolutely. So what it looks like is on a page you have your episode and below that page you have a form that is powered by AI. And this form is going to ask your listener 1, 2, or 3 questions. Those questions can be generated by AI by default. And basically AI is going to use the answer to these questions to start a conversation by email with this listener, giving them advice on how to take action on what was discussed on the podcast episode. Speaker A: Oh, so let me test this out. Like, let's say that we're talking about, you know, AI chatbots. I say, listen, you can go to my website right now and I have a chatbot specifically around this topic. So if you want, well, you know, and if I do, um, and so I, I don't know if this would be more appropriate for solo episodes or for guest interviews. I suppose each would be fine because on the back end, you know, what we're doing is we're just feeding it. We're instructing. What, well, no, is this a form interface or is it a chatbot interface? Speaker B: So it is a form interface. So you know how you can have a form where people give you their name and their email and you give them a lead magnet, like a freebie, a PDF. Everybody gets the same thing, right? Well, here your listener gets to give you context. It gives you information about them, where they're at, so you can give them a unique response. So every lead gets a unique message based on— it's like having your listener right next to you. You ask him a couple of questions and based on what he says, you tell him, this is what you should do next. Only we do that in an automated way using the power of AI, and we start that conversation and they also get on your list so that you can follow up. Speaker A: Oh, very cool. I mean, because at the end of the day, someone's like, wow, that was really cool. It's like, hey, listen, answer a few questions and I will personally— because we've been talking like, for example, like in this conversation, we're going to talk very general. I mean, it's going to be pretty high level and someone might be listening and they might be thinking, huh, I wonder if that would work for XYZ, right? And we say, hey, you might be wondering if this works for XYZ. Well, it's really simple. Wow, this could be really cool. You know what I would love to do is set one of these up for, you know, every single one of my guests, you know, 'cause we're, you know, we're kind of talking about a conversation. What a cool resource that would be. And then you're right, it's, you know, you're collecting information. Absolutely. And then honoring that relationship and making sure that you're, you know, delivering content that's going to be appropriate for, for what that person is interested in. I like it. Speaker B: You can really see it as a lead qualifier, right? Because the email, you get to choose the call to action you want in the email. It could be book a call. It could be watch this other episode, you know, um, but it's very targeted to them. So when they, they read the email, it really feels like a conversation. It talks about what they shared in the questions, you know, in their answer. So it's very personal. And that really accelerates that trust, right? Speaker A: Yeah. You know, so very, very cool. Thank you. The website for that podcast, leadflow.com. You know, Natalie, I really wanted to talk with you about the Membership Lab as well. Do you mind giving just a quick overview of the work that you've been doing with the Membership Lab, which has been a long and storied past? You started more than 18 years ago. And let me tell you, I mean, if you— I don't know if the business has evolved you know, over the years, and I don't know if you were doing memberships back then, but I was, I started a membership-based website back in 2007. Uh, and let me tell you, technology was way different than it is today. Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. I mean, we, we didn't start it exactly with memberships. We were doing websites, but very quickly we saw the opportunity of helping the e-learning space. And helping people create better experiences for students because you see so many online programs where people buy and they don't do anything. Speaker A: And we got to change that. That's the norm. Yeah. Do you mind? Can you dig into, you know, I don't, I don't wanna gloss over that topic. 'Cause, and I think that there's probably some, some normalization that we could probably do for folks. Can you share just a little bit more data behind engagement statistics typically? Speaker B: Yeah. So basically when, when you're looking at somebody that basically purchases a course, you know, a program, typically they say that you would be between, have between 3 and 5% of people that actually complete a program. Ooh. Ooh. Speaker A: Just, just in case anyone didn't hear that number, 3 to 5%. Speaker B: Yeah. Now, if you, if you built in, if you've built in support and accountability, it can go up a bit. But the reality is that most people, and you start to see the problem that people now are not having the launch numbers that they used to have, is that people don't want that anymore. People want results. They don't buy $2,000, $3,000 courses anymore. They want results. And that's why the recurring, the membership model, when it's built in with support and accountability, is what gets people results. And that's really how we should measure the success of a program, is by the success of our clients, not by our bank account, right? I mean, at least that's me, because if you can sell for millions a course, sure, you're going to find 50 people that give you a testimonial. But what about the 90% of people that are struggling and will never do anything? And then you, you hear, well, you know, you have it, you have access forever. It's okay. Access forever, forever. You know what that means, right? It's going to be shelved and you go on to the next thing. So, so, so, so that's the reality. And right now we are seeing people shifting in the last 2, 3 years. Like, it's really changed the model where people want more connection. They are done with buying programs that are just repository of content where there is no support, no accountability. And with the power of AI now, which we use AI as an accelerator of success, not as a replacement of people, as an add-on, we accelerate results inside program. And that's basically, people are starting to expect that now. Speaker A: Yeah. Could you be— maybe just share like 1 or 2 very tactical things that someone who does have a course might want to implement so that they can, they can, they can increase that number, you know, from 3 to 6% to something a little bit more heartening, because that is disheartening to hear. Speaker B: It is, right? So the first thing that sounds, you know, quite obvious But it's to first know your numbers because you ask people that have a course, how many people have completed your course? They don't know because they are not even measuring. So start measuring, start analyzing the places where people fall off the wagon. Maybe there is a step where you need to break this down, where you need to provide extra support, extra tools. To help people, because this is what happens when you don't work with people one-on-one, is that you don't have that handholding. So they go through your course and then there is a bit of a hiccup, or there is a hard decision to make, and they don't make it. And then the next thing you know, they start to feel that they are falling behind because the others keep going, right? So if you can identify these places where Maybe you can do a better job as providing again, more support, more accountability, more tools to help them execute, right? Take action, do the homework, do the thing, then you'll get more successful people. And it's a ripple effect, right? You get more successful people, you get more testimonials, you get more case studies. You know, it's a circle, right? And it's better for your marketing. So I would say first thing is know your numbers, know the people, you know, like the people that actually, the number of people that actually complete your course in a reasonable amount of time. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: Know the places where people fall off. Speaker A: Where are they dropping off? Identify your drop-offs. That's the biggest clue. Speaker B: And see if you can do something about it. Is it a lack of support? Is it too overwhelming? Like, can this needs to be broken down and things like that. Speaker A: Because people need regular ongoing wins and endorphin hits, right? Speaker B: Yes. Speaker A: Like, especially today. I mean, it's just like, you know, at the rate we're just, um, you know, just, uh, farming social media for those, for those quick endorphin hits, you know, they're this, you know, you need that same thing in anything that, you know, any user experience. Speaker B: Exactly. You need those quick wins. Another thing is that you also need to show people they're making progress. Because when you're in the trenches and you're looking for the thing that you're aiming at, even though you're making progress, you're still looking at what's next, what's next. You don't take the time to look back and say, hey, I've done this, you know, I've got this clarity so far. And that will give them momentum. That will give them, uh, You know, like the energy and the motivation to keep going. It's like those quick wins. Now, you don't want to go back to, you don't want to go completely the other way where your program becomes a gamification, right? Where you have confettis all the time and then points and then gifts and things like that, right? So you also have to know your audience and know how to motivate them. And it's different depending on markets, right? Speaker A: How do you— we just have a couple minutes left here. So themembershiplab.com, who are you a great solution for? Like, how does someone know that they might be ready for you? Speaker B: So people are ready to work with us if they are looking to build a membership program, like they have a system a method that works and they are looking to create a community around that. So it could be somebody like a coach that does one-on-one, maybe they do some group. It could be a course creator who realizes that maybe his course should be inside a membership. So there is some recurring support. So people have more time to complete the course, right? It could be somebody that has a membership, but they've hit a plateau. With what they can do with their portal and they get frustrated because they cannot create the experience that they want. It could be that they want to integrate AI and they can't right now, you know, like in this cookie cutter platform that they are in. Speaker A: So yeah, yeah. Do you, are you, Natalie, your website is, uh, the, the membershiplab.com. So the membershiplab.com. Also, we talked about Podcast Lead Flow. That website is podcastleadflow.com. Uh, Natalie Dormoux, thank you so much. Uh, it's been a wonderful conversation. Sounds like you and I are probably gonna need to chat afterwards. It looks like there's some areas that we could, we could probably do some good stuff together. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: Natalie, it's been a great conversation. Thank you for joining us. Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me, Josh. Speaker A: Thanks for listening to The Thoughtful Entrepreneur Show. If you are a thoughtful business owner or professional who would like to be on this daily program, please visit upmyinfluence.com and click on podcast. We believe that every person has a message that can positively impact the world. We love our community who listens and shares our program every day. Together, we are empowering one another as thoughtful leaders. And as I mentioned at the beginning of this program, if you're looking for introductions to partners, investors, influencers, and clients. I have had private conversations with over 2,000 leaders asking them where their best business comes from. I've got a free video that you can watch right now with no opt-in or email required, where I'm gonna share the exact steps necessary to be 100% inbound in your industry over the next 6 to 8 months with no spam, no ads, and no sales. What I teach has worked for me for more than 15 years and has helped me create 8 figures in revenue for my own company. Companies. Just head to upmyinfluence.com and watch my free class on how to create endless high-ticket sales appointments. Make sure to hit subscribe so that tomorrow morning— that's right, 7 days a week— you are going to be inspired and motivated to succeed. I promise to bring positivity and inspiration to you for around 15 minutes every single day. 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