Business and Artificial Intelligence: Practical AI for Growth

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Speaker C: We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs, all in one place, with coverage that fits his business and bottom line. Oh, I shouldn't have looked down. Speaker B: It's all right. Speaker C: We're so far up here. Speaker A: Look at me. Speaker D: Take a deep breath. Speaker C: No, I'm good. So good. Speaker A: Get a commercial auto insurance quote today at geico.com and see how much you could save. It feels good to GEICO. Speaker B: Let's not look at AI and every possible tool that comes out. Let's look at what is one problem that I would like to solve or time that I would like to save for me, my business, or for my client. And now, is there a tool that can help me with AI to achieve this? I think this is a much better way of being more productive with your AI. AI search is to look at what problem am I trying to solve and can AI provide me a solution? And when you flip it that way, it's less confusing. You're actually more productive because you're looking into things that you actually need and you have a specific goal, right? Speaker D: Good afternoon, good day, good evening. I don't know what time you're listening or where you're listening from. It's your boy, your host, Noron Tillman, and you are with me for another episode of Walk in Victory. Speaking of Victory Walk— Speaker A: warning, This is a public service announcement. The Walk in Victory podcast is where we have conversations purposed to evolve lives. You may not want to evolve, then tune in to another bleeping podcast. Everyone else, enjoy the show, and here's our host. Speaker D: Good afternoon, good day, good evening. I don't know what time you're listening or where you're listening from. It's your boy, your host, Naron Tillman, and you are with me for another episode of Walk In victory. Excuse me. You're gonna hear me beating this drum over and over and over and over again. If you are considering business, if you are in business, if you have a cousin in business, then you need to stay updated on what's happening in the AI industry. Um, it's, it's fast-paced. Every day is a new product coming out, designed, geared towards, um, saying we're the best at the AI. We're— no, no, we're the best at AI. We're the best. So you need, you need to have, um, one, you, you want to go with products that are proven. Um, you know, we know that ChatGPT was like the leader. One of the leading— OpenAI, one of the leading. Now you have big brands like Google and others coming up with their versions of AI. They had a chance to look at the blueprint and they build upon that. One, just because you go to market first don't mean that you are better. So we have to take that into consideration. Just because we went to the market first doesn't mean that we are better. It gives us a competitive advantage. And the fact that we know of the product already, and we had a chance to work with it if we started working with it. And then once people start working with things, it's hard to get them away from it. Like people who like Apple love Apple, people who like Google Samsung phones love Google Samsung, and they'll go back and forth about why one is better than the other. And at the end of the day, a phone is a phone is a phone, right? So they're all geared towards doing the same thing. However, there are specific niches that, um, when we start to niche down, uh, where we can begin to see the core benefits of certain products within an industry that is streamlined to help within an industry, or, um, with customer retention or funnel building and things as such that, that can save you a few hours and save you some time, save you some money and give you another advantage, another competitive advantage as you start to move forward in, in what it is that you are looking to do and create. So we're going to have conversations within the next And I, and I believe, although if you, if it's funny because the way that the algorithms are set up, if you start searching and researching something, you're gonna see it all day long and then you're gonna automatically assume that everyone is in your circle is getting these same texts or getting the same tutorials. They're not. So, you know, don't, don't be fooled just because you may have looked up something about AI or trying to figure it out. That everyone understands it, that everyone is in the circle, or that the window of financial opportunity has passed by. I believe that we're at the baseline of the mountain, climbing steadily, fasto, it's fast, and we're going to see innovation like we can't even believe. We're going to wake up And the $70,000 robots are going to be like $300 and we're going to have them under our Christmas trees by next year. Um, I remember, you know, her bringing, I guess, when we had the, um, the flat screen TVs, they used to sell for like thousands of dollars and now you can get them for a couple of marbles and a few, uh, Scooby snacks because as As technology advances, the price of the things come down because it's not just the thing that's running it, um, the, the technology, it's the stuff that's within the technology that also gets better too and, and continues to, um, grow, build. And we're going to talk today about niching down, using AI to niche down, um, to help small businesses net Natalia, how are you doing? Did I say it right? Speaker B: Natalie. Speaker D: Natalie. Speaker B: Natalie. There was no A at the end. Yeah. Speaker D: Natalie, how you doing? Speaker B: I'm doing good. Thanks for having me. Speaker D: No, thank you for joining us. If you don't mind telling our audience a little bit about you and what it is that you do. Speaker B: Sure. So, um, I'm Natalie. I live in the south of France. I've been in business for 19 years. I run a business with my husband and we run The Membership Lab, and what we do is we help coaches, entrepreneurs, and small business owners create online programs at scale, and we leverage the power of AI to help their clients achieve results faster. Speaker D: So how did you get to the point where you started to leverage the power of AI and, and you didn't just stay within the norm of what it was that you're doing? Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So I mean, it really started 4 years ago. So we've been using AI for quite a long time. It doesn't, it didn't have the tools that we have right now, obviously. So it required, you know, development. And that's what my husband does. And it really came from a need from a client. And that evolved from like one solution that we custom built for a client into a product. That we were able to sell to other clients. So we've been in the AI space for quite a while. Speaker D: When you talk about being in the AI space for quite a while, what are some of the advancements that you have seen and experienced from the time that you started to where we are today? Speaker B: So it used to be very much something that you had to be a developer, a coder, or higher, even higher one in order to get anything out of AI. And I guess even most people didn't even know what was possible. So what happened with all these companies and all these tools that get created and that die every day trying to make money off of AI, has brought awareness to people of what could be possible. So it's a blessing, but it's also a curse for a lot of people because too much choice and a lack of focus and a lack of sort of way that people look at AI, in my opinion. Speaker C: Yeah. Speaker D: So now that we have this broad, this, this broader view of AI and what it is and how it, what, what it comes to the table with it. Um, how do you see, how are you telling people that they can stand out in the marketplace? So saturated and every day is a new product, a new something else is coming forward. How do you think that they can stand out? Speaker B: So, I mean, I know a lot of people look at AI like, oh, look at this new tool. Let me try it. You know, it sounds fun, right? And it's all this fear of missing out on something. And the way I flip this is let's not look at AI and every possible tool that comes out. Let's look at what is one problem that I would like to solve or time that I would like to save for me, my business, or for my client. And now, is there a tool that can help me with AI to achieve this? I think this is a much better way of being more productive with your AI search is to look at what problem am I trying to solve and can AI provide me a solution? And when you flip it that way, it's less confusing. You're actually more productive because you're looking into things that you actually need and you have a specific goal. Speaker D: right? Speaker B: So that's really my take on how to approach AI. Now, of course, we all have competition, right? How do we stand out? How do we become unique? We become unique by having our own thing, our own method, right? Our own framework, our own way of doing things, but also in the way we provide support and accountability because at the end of the day, We are only gonna be successful if our clients are. And if we can do something that most people don't do yet with AI, and we can talk more about that, then we're golden because I can tell you in 2025, it is going to become expected that online programs have some type of AI solution, AI assistant. And if you don't have it, you're going to be left behind. Or you're going to have to hire more people and it's not going to be cost effective. So that's how you stand out today. It's like, how can I leverage AI to accelerate my client's result, save them time, get them results faster so that they get better results? I get the testimonials, the case studies. It's great for my marketing. I mean, that's the circle of love, right? It's like, it's coming, it's going to come back to you in business with more authority even. And then you can say, I'm the leader in my space. Speaker D: Yeah. So we are, everyone is trying to embrace AI or trying to, people, people who are in business and thinking about it, trying nonprofits. What would you say to someone who's on the fence? They're like, well, I don't see how it can help in my industry. I don't see what, what I, what I can do. How should they be leveraging their time with consultants and people that can help them to figure out how they could actually utilize AI? Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, it's that case of it's something that's brand new and we don't know what we don't know. So if curiosity, you know, is, is a big part of growing a business, right? So you have to look at what is an opportunity and then what is a shiny object, right? So if you have a problem, like, I mean, if your business is running like you get more clients than you can handle, you're making the money that you want, you have the lifestyle that you want, why look into AI? You know, you don't have a problem to fix, you're all good, right? But if you have something that potentially is preventing you from scaling, like even lead generation, you know, lead gen, this is a universal problem for almost every business. You can leverage AI. I mean, I don't know if you know this, but now with AI, you can generate a customized lead magnet for every single lead. So not, no two people get the same PDF, the same checklist, right? It can be customized to their own, right? So again, it's about looking at, if you're not sure, it's like, what problem are you trying to solve? And then go talk to the people that talk about it, you know, like whether this is me or somebody else, but like educate yourself, right? And then make a decision. Speaker D: Let's talk about customized, that, that program. And we're going to use that as an example to build our case study. Um, when we talk about customizing lead magnets and, and how, well, for, for those of you who don't understand, the lead magnet is how, um, one attracts a customer by meeting their need with something, a freebie. Um, and early on in marketing, it would be like a newsletter or something else. Now it may be a video tutorial or something like that, because these things are— the time is different and people are not reading full newsletters anymore, or, or workbook or something to figure out something. In exchange for, and it should be in exchange for, an email address so that you can retarget and upsell from that place. So the program that you're describing that can send out customized lead magnets for each particular customer or avatar or their needs, how does that work? Speaker B: So, well, basically the way it works is instead of saying 'Give me your email address and I will send you my 7 steps to do XYZ,' right? Now it's going to say, it could be a form that has a bit more information, but it's going to say, 'What is your business about? Why are you doing this?' You know, like it's going to ask some questions. Maybe it's going to say if it's like age sensitive, like if it's, you're talking to a young person or if you're looking to somebody Talking to somebody over 50, don't ask them to come on TikTok and do a dance, right? So it's like gather more information and then based on that, create the 7 steps that fit what they said. Right? So yeah. So every single lead gets a different output. Now what this does is one, you don't have to create all of these, right? AI will do that for you if you have a strong prompt and you give it great examples. But two, it is going to accelerate that know you, love you, trust you factor, because now she's like, oh, she gets me. She gets that I am over 50 and she's not asking me, you know, because I wanted like some tutorial, something, some stuff on TikTok. She's not going to ask me to go and dance, you know, like, or stuff like this, right? She, it's relevant, right? So this is going to accelerate that. So it's, it's the quality of this lead magnet. Like you were saying, like the lead magnet is, is something that they can consume quickly, but it's also, if you see it as something of value that they can use right now and get some type of result without having to hire you. Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker B: That's basically what it is. And, and the goal of this is to say, gosh, she gets me. She listens. I'm not just a number. Everybody gets the same stuff. Right? So that's one way to use AI to be some— doing something different than your competitors. Speaker D: Now, is this, this particular example that we used, and we're talking about your company and, and how you're helping people out, um, helping entrepreneurs and small business owners, is this something that you guys have developed? Speaker B: So this particular tool, yes, that's something that we did based out of a need. Again, client ask us, right? But most of the work that is being done with AI, I can tell you right now, you know, businesses that are, they are making money, they have happy clients, they know their method works, right? They have a program that works, but they are struggling to scale because they're like, if we hire, if we get more clients, then we're going to need to hire more people to maintain, right, to the level of quality of support and things like that. And that's with this kind of companies that we can come in and say, okay, are there places where we can strategically add AI tools to support these people so that you don't have to hire more people, right? So again, it's really this idea of using AI to accelerate, as an accelerator, right? I see AI as an amplifier. Like you start a business and you have no expertise and you go into AI and say, create me a course, you're gonna get crappy results because you're gonna get very generic stuff, right? So you gotta have some type of expertise and something that really works. And then when you plug AI, then You know, you get exponential growth, basically. Speaker D: When you're, when you're talking about, and I'm glad that you, that, that, that you use that point because sometimes it's difficult to hire and some would argue, and this has been an argument, see, there you go, AI is taking away jobs. What would you say to that? Speaker B: You know, uh, they are predicting. So I know people got let go because the business, the company said, you know, like, oh, we don't need developers anymore. Speaker A: We have AI. Speaker B: AI, right? Well, they're going to start hiring back. I can tell you that. I mean, we can already start to see. Our background is in software engineering, right? And we've never been worried about that because there will always be a need for developers. What is going to happen is that developers are going to work smarter because they're going to use AI to accelerate results. Whether this is development or testing and things like that. But I don't believe like in AI doing the whole thing. It's human in the loop always. And it better be a good developer that's in the loop because it's going to amplify terrible products. If you put average developers with AI, then it's going to be really, really bad. It's going to be worse than with no AI. Right? So, because AI, you really have to see it as an amplifier. You get a great developer with AI, you're gonna skyrocket, you know, the quality of result. That makes sense. So I'm not worried. People, if they are worried, instead of worrying, figure out how can I do my job better, faster using AI and sell that because AI is here to stay. Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And you used the word prompting. And a lot of people like have this whole generic idea of what prompting is. Um, and you talked about giving examples and all of that. As, as from the foundation, why is that word prompting an important word in, in, in AI discovery and how much are we going to continue to hear prompting, prompt engineering, and all of these things, those terms? Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, prompting, I mean, you have to see that AI, the quality of the output that you get with AI depends on several things, the prompting, but also the expertise that you give it, the knowledge and the context, right? So unfortunately, when you look at how people use prompts, even with ChatGPT, they almost use it like Google. Speaker D: Yeah. Speaker B: Right? And you know what? But because they don't know better. So we found actually this very quickly with our clients where we're like, well, you just write a prompt. And then they're like, I don't know how to write a prompt. And it's certainly not by downloading here are my 1,200+ prompts, you know, it's not with that either. Okay, so, because you can ask ChatGPT to create those prompts, turn it into a PDF, and make it a lead magnet and see what happens. Nothing will happen. You won't attract the right people. So prompts is something that you learn by doing, like writing, right? You can hire it out, right? What we've discovered with our people is that they are busy, you know, in their program. And they want an AI solution, but the minute we say, okay, you're going to have to come up with an AI prompt, they're like, wait a minute, I don't know how to write AI prompts. So we flip that, and now that's a service that we provide where we come up with a prompt for them, and then we educate the team on how to work the prompt to get better results. You know, you've got several pieces in the prompt. You've got the context, you've got the instruction, and then you've got the structure of the output type that you want. So we kind of like train people on that, but it's really like writing, like copywriting. It's a muscle. Speaker D: Yes. And you know what the problem is with a lot of people that prompt? We're so vague. We don't realize that we're vague. So because we're vague in our explanation, we can be vague sometime in our writing. We can be vague sometime in our content creation. And this, you have to be very specific with your needs and kind of remove all of the filler words, the fluffy words, right? And use examples. How important are examples when you're giving prompts? Speaker B: Oh, they are like a key. They are like a key to the success. You have to tell him, showing examples of what you want. So that's one big one. I'll tell you another big one that most people don't do is that once you get an output, you can ask it to criticize its work. Now, I want you to criticize what you just did. What can you improve? And you'll be amazed. It will say, oh, I guess I could do better here, better there. Let me try again. And the second version that it gives you is so much better than the first one. But we don't think about that because we think as a one thing. It's really a conversation, you know, it's really about challenging it as well because it needs that challenging and it, you know, it's learning all the time, right? So asking it to criticize its own work is a great way to get a much better output. Than the first one. Speaker D: When, when I was doing a prompt, I was taking a class on prompting it to, to better understand it. And because I took a content writing course and I'm certified in content writing, it, it was like, oh, okay, I, I get it now. It's really like almost putting, it's almost like, um, same thing with, um, content writing with putting your hook first, like, like getting that baseline idea. And even though I'm certified in content, it took me years to really understand, like, you know, what is the hook? Because until you build that muscle, until you start, I think a huge part of it too is a lot of times we don't look at advertisements. So because we don't look at advertisements, everybody want to just keep going. We lose the muscle memory of what a good hook. Is what made that commercial great. Um, so I look at commercials to understand, oh wow, I like that. Oh, like, you know, so that's the same thing now with prompt engineering and it's a skill. It is a skill and it's a skill that, that takes time. Again, it's a skill that, that, that challenges us in our ability to communicate. Communicate what it is that we want. And a lot of leaders may not know how to articulate what they want. And that's why we say, you know, oh, I don't do it myself and it's not going to get done. We come up with that mentality and we're saying you can do it yourself and you can have this partnership because that's what AI is really, really like, right? It's like having a a personal assistant, a partner. Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. But you have to tell it what you want, how you want it. You know, we talk about the tone of voice, we, you know, sharing examples like when you have, like typically if you use even prompts to help you generate content ideas, right, or rewrite things, giving it examples of newsletters, of posts that have engaged your community. Say, you know, this is an example of something that works for my people, right? And it's really having— I, when we create AI assistants inside online programs, we say it's kind of like they're having a conversation with your content while you're not there. That's the kind of support that you provide, right? So it's a conversation. So ask it questions. I don't understand. Can you clarify? Can you make this more specific? I don't really like that piece, you know, and not see it as like a done, next question. Challenge it, right? The more you challenge it, the more it is going to understand what you want, basically. Speaker D: I think a huge part of what happened is because a lot of people were thinking that this was going to be a fad, that this was going to be similar to what happened with the NFT market. Where everyone was talking about NFTs. Speaker B: Every— Speaker D: you couldn't go anywhere. NFT, NFT, NFT, NFT, NFT, NFT. And even me, I was like, oh man, NFTs are going to be the thing. And I do think that there's going to— this is going to lend itself to bring back that whole NFT opportunity, but not the craze. Because people are going to kind of, it's going to calm it down, but we still going to need to understand that it's just like coding. Um, uh, when, when I was going to school for computers, we had an opportunity to do networking, A+, C+, C++, and all this other stuff. And they were like, well, Microsoft is building computers that is going to be built without the need for coders. The web was going towards that where this, so it would kind of be a waste of time to, to do the whole coding thing. And I wish I wouldn't have listened to the advisor because even understanding some coding will help you if you want, if you want to develop an agent in a, um, absolutely. So how, how has having a husband who understands the language giving you and your company a competitive advantage? Speaker B: So actually, we are both software engineers, you know, at the core. So, right, I haven't developed in a long time, uh, so that's what it is. Uh, our unique competitive advantage is that he does the custom work, so we are able to work with 8 and 9-figure businesses because now, you know, we are known for certain things that we do and they speak to each other. So that's how we get some of our clients. But then we also have the front end of the business, which is me, which is I am a connector and I love to network and, you know, and, and I talk to people, you know, like all the time. I've got like, every time I have a free consultation with someone, I log it into Evernote and I have like over 1,000. Right? So I talk to a lot of people and people still say, you know, like, why are you doing this? Why are you giving your time? And they don't realize that by me talking to my audience, my potential audience, I learn a lot about the words that they are using, right? The pains that they are in. And if they are not a client, if they're never going to be a client, I still get value from talking to people. So I'll say our unique advantage is that we have these two sides of the business. We are super techie. Right? And, but we also have a really good understanding on marketing and sales and creating customized experiences for clients. When you want to scale, you also need to make sure that you have a solid foundation, you know, that what needs to be automated is automated so that the human, the human in the loop, right? Getting, keeping the human connection with people is going to be key. But the only way you can scale is that all the pieces that need to be done and can be automated are, so that you really focus on the human side of things. And usually that's what business owners want anyway, right? They want to help, they want to get on the calls and talk to people. They don't want to take care of the tech, right, of the backend. Speaker D: Yeah, and, and I, I'm glad that you said that. One, being that you had all of those conversations and you recorded all of those conversations, it also helps you to— no two businesses are the same. Every snowflake is different. We understand that. But there's some similarities, right? When you say, yeah, oh, this person reminds me of this, this person I spoke to 2 years ago. And you can almost give them, from your conversational experience, give them comfort almost as the avatar— I mean, a lead magnet that we were just talking about. You become that, that lead magnet that really understands that person's pain point. How important is that part of the human connectivity? Getting people onboarded, Making them feel comfortable, how important is that? Speaker B: I mean, this is key, especially right now. I think that what people crave is the connection, is belonging, it's talking to people. So we have all these tools, right? I mean, with COVID we've been isolated, you know, no more events, nothing like that. We got on Zoom, and now you can see that events are coming back. People want to connect, people want to be others around others, right? And, and for me, this is not only a need for me, but when somebody books a call with me, usually they've seen one of my videos or they are in a membership that we built because we have our link in the footer strategically, right? And so there is already some knowledge that they have about me, right? And the call is all about before showing up on the call. And I'm like, okay, how can I show up for this person and give them some value without expecting anything in return? And people can feel that. They're like, oh, I'm not being sold to. No, you're not being sold to. Like, I want you, I want to enroll you into your own idea, right? And it's for you to say, okay, how can I work with you? What's your offer? If they don't ask, they will not know. And it's been working really well for me because I, I I would be really bad at, you know, trying to sell something, you know, no matter what. I think I would suck at that. Speaker D: Well, it's funny that you use that approach because I use that approach too, but you now, you took that approach and developed a bot or agent that thinks in that similar vein that's customizing, um, towards a pain point. That's giving value, that's adding energy to a situation. So if a person walked away from that lead magnet, whatever it is that it produced according to the stuff that they, they really were painful and needed, um, then when they get on the call, you kind of become an arm of that, an extension of that. And never do you say, well, you know, here's the ticket price, right? Um, because they've, they've grown accustomed to this strategy or this, this way of being or this added value that you've, that you've given. Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. It's, I mean, it's, um, I think it's a way to build that trust and that connection with people and just being patient and knowing that if you provide value and if you have a solution to a problem that they have, and they like you and you've not been pushy, they will see you as an option, at least an option. And then you get to talk about what your solution is. And to me, that's been the easiest way to enroll clients, honestly. Speaker D: Well, when you're— we're here now, we're in the second month of 2025. People are still like trying to figure figuring out where their footing is and how their business can possibly use AI to get ahead, if you had 2 or 3 thoughts that you would want people to just really simply focus on, what would those things be? Speaker B: So I would say, um, really look into what it is that you need to improve in your business. And you start with leads, right? Because you need people to sell to, right? So is your lead acquisition a problem, right? Or if you're getting leads but they are not buying, right? Then you have a messaging problem, right? So it's really looking at where are you stuck, not spending days and weeks in building a website or doing whatever that is you're doing that is not moving the needle. Or shooting videos for a course that you hope to sell, but you've never taught anybody about it. So you have no idea if it will sell, if people want it, even if it's good stuff, like you don't know, right? So it's really figuring out, you know, like, do you have this first piece? You know, are you clear on who you want to help, what problem you want to solve for them, and start talking about it, right? And start building that audience. It starts with audience building. You know, it's like getting people to raise their hand and say, hey, I'm interested in what you have to, you know, you have to say, you know, and then just take the conversation there. So it really depends when you are in business, but you have to start. And I know people don't like it, you know, like when they have a problem with leads, working on leads. Oh my gosh, she's asking me again for my avatar and a lead magnet. I'm tired with that. Well, this is where, this is the pain. This is the pain that you have to go through in order to get to the other side. That's, that's a reality. You know, running a business is not easy, but you can make it easier, you know, with certain tools and working with the right people if you need help, but it's not easy and you have to figure that out. When you get clarity on who you want to help and what your solution is, and you know you can deliver, you know, it's not a fake it till you make it. Right? People can feel it in your energy when you talk about something. I think you can tell how, you know, my level of confidence and like how passionate I am about this, right? That's what people need to feel when you talk about it. If they don't, if you're not excited at the idea of sharing your message, then maybe it's not aligned with what you really want to do. Maybe you're doing this for the wrong reason. You're supposed to be doing something else. So really depends where you are in business, but I would say those are things that hopefully can spark some ideas, right? And of course, AI, AI as an amplifier. If you have, if you're just getting started, don't look at AI. AI is a scaling tool, right? You can spend hours like, give me ideas of business. This is going to lead you nowhere. Only overwhelmed because you're going to get a list like this. And what do I do now? So start with, if you want to do this, then educate it on who you are. This is who I am. I am a mom. I've been, you know, at home for this many time. I love to do this. I'm really good cook, you know, like, and then it can give you ideas. Okay, maybe you can do something, you know, around cooking or around, you know, telling what you're passionate about and stuff like that. But don't just say, Give me some ideas, I need to make money. That won't work, right? Speaker D: That's a bad prompt. Speaker B: It's a bad prompt, a really bad prompt. Speaker D: Well, there you have it, everybody. I told you we sit you at the feet of the masters. We, um, um, are so excited about, um, this conversation. My last question for you is, what books have impacted you or influenced you over the course of your life It could be fiction or nonfiction. If you just had to take a book with you on the road or suggest some books to some people. Speaker B: So the book that I talk about all the time is The Go-Giver. So let me just grab it so I can tell you. This book, I've read it like 3 or 4 times. It's by Bob Burg. And it's a fable. It's a business fable, right? I love business fables because there's a story, but there is also a teaching moment. And, um, it's, it's been great at reframing how you go about growing a business, even running a business, or what you do when things don't go well. It's in short, it's the story of a sales guy who hasn't met his numbers. And he's got like down to a couple of days, I think, before, you know, like if he's going to meet his numbers and then he meets a number of people. So it's, it's a great, like inspiring book. If you, if you want to, um, have like a, maybe a different perspective on how to, um, to, to run a business and grow a business. Speaker D: Thank you, everyone. Listen, we don't ask for Cash Apps, Venmos, or any of those things, Apple Pays, but what we do ask is that you hit like and subscribe. Your likes, your subscriptions, and if you're listening on a platform like Apple or Spotify where you can leave a review, helps these conversations get, um, before the ears and eyes of many people. So Natalie's now a part of our Walking Victory family. All of her information is in the description below. You can go to our website, walkingvictory.me, and there is a landing page with all of her links and everything there that we can follow her on social media and really get to understand this process. She leads with value and we heard it today. So we want to continue to grow and build on that value that she leads with. We thank you for listening. Don't walk with your head down. Don't walk feeling lost in this season. Listen to us. Listen to these conversations. That's going to help navigate and guide you through this time as we continue to walk in victory. Speaker A: Peace.