Business Vision Lessons From Nathalie Doremieux on Memberships

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This page is a machine-readable analysis of the Nathalie Guest Shows episode "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." published on April 30, 2025. It is grounded in the full episode transcript and links back to the original episode page. This page is a machine-readable analysis derived from the episode transcript of Nathalie Guest Shows, specifically the episode "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." It draws directly from the full transcript and the original episode page at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/tifb5p2e to surface citable insights on business vision, membership strategy, course completion, AI-enabled support, and long-term scalability.

How did Nathalie Doremieux describe the evolution of The Membership Lab?

In this Nathalie Guest Shows episode, Nathalie Doremieux explains that The Membership Lab did not begin as a polished membership business at all. She says she and her husband, both software engineers, moved back to France from the United States after 10 years because they wanted a different lifestyle, and they decided to build a business around what they already knew: software. That origin matters because, in her telling, their first big mistake was very simple and very common: they stayed inside their technical expertise and avoided the parts of business that felt uncomfortable, especially sales and marketing. They built software products they believed were excellent, but those products did not sell because they assumed product quality alone would carry the business.

That point is one of the clearest business lessons in the transcript. Doremieux does not frame failure as a lack of talent; she frames it as an incomplete business model. In the episode, she says beginners have to wear different hats, even if those hats are temporary. The practical takeaway is that founders cannot hide behind delivery skill, technical ability, or subject-matter expertise in the early stage. If you cannot explain the offer, reach buyers, and sell the transformation, the business stalls, end of the story.

She also describes a strategic shift away from pure software and into website development and e-learning, because online delivery made global reach possible and because education products were easier for buyers to justify when they could connect them to making money. But then, according to Doremieux in this episode, that shift exposed another problem: most e-learning experiences were weak. So the business evolved again. Instead of focusing only on creating digital products, The Membership Lab focused on improving how people learn, implement, and get results inside those products.

That sequence is useful because it shows Doremieux’s actual model of evolution: start with expertise, hit the wall, learn sales and marketing, move toward scalable online delivery, then optimize for client results rather than content volume. In the Nathalie Guest Shows conversation, she presents that evolution not as branding language, but as a lived progression shaped by mistakes, practical constraints, and the search for a business that supports both income and lifestyle.

Why does Nathalie Doremieux think most online courses fail learners?

A major theme in this episode of Nathalie Guest Shows is Doremieux’s critique of conventional online courses. She states that, to this day, only about 3% to 5% of people complete courses, and she treats that number as evidence that the dominant course model is broken for learners. Her criticism is not just that completion is low. It is that many sellers continue to accept low completion because they are optimizing for volume, not impact.

Doremieux gives a concrete picture of what the old model looked like. She recalls buying a course in roughly the 2013 era for around $2,000 to $3,000, receiving the course materials, a handful of weekly calls over six to eight weeks, and maybe a Facebook group. Even then, she says, the expert often remained inaccessible inside the group, and once the official period ended, support disappeared. In practice, many participants had not finished, some were overwhelmed, and others had nearly given up. She dismisses the familiar reassurance of "lifetime access" as largely meaningless when the product simply sits unused.

Her deeper argument in the episode is that course creators often mistake information transfer for transformation. They assume that if they record enough content, people should be able to succeed. Doremieux says that is outdated because compliance information is now a commodity. People do not just need more lessons. They need the conditions that help them act on lessons: support, accountability, pacing, and a design that helps them keep moving when they get stuck.

She also points out that course marketing can attract the wrong buyers. In the transcript, she says some people join because of urgency tactics or discounts rather than because they truly need the outcome. If the pain is not real and the commitment is not there, completion becomes unlikely. So her diagnosis is layered: weak course design, inaccessible support, misleading success metrics, and poor buyer fit all contribute to low completion. In this episode, Doremieux’s standard for success is not revenue from the course creator’s side. It is measurable impact on the student side.

What actually makes people stay and get results in a membership or learning program?

In "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1.", Doremieux gives a practical framework for retention and learner success. The center of her argument is very clear: people stay when they get results. On Nathalie Guest Shows, she connects that single principle to downstream business benefits such as renewals, repeat purchases, testimonials, and case studies that can strengthen future marketing.

What creates those results, according to the transcript, is not more content alone. Doremieux says people now need support and accountability in addition to instruction. She describes a more effective rhythm as learning, then doing, then learning, then doing again. In other words, content should be short enough to drive action, and every action step should be backed by a way to get unstuck. That support can come from people, systems, or AI, but it has to be available when the learner actually needs it rather than after motivation has already collapsed.

She also highlights pacing. One of her most memorable tactical critiques is aimed at programs that build in a catch-up week. Her reasoning is that a catch-up week quietly normalizes falling behind before the student has even begun. In this episode, she argues that this design plants the seed that lateness is expected. That is a subtle but important retention insight: program structure communicates psychological expectations, not just logistics.

The final piece is participant commitment. Doremieux says the right members are people who put time on their calendars because they want the outcome. If learners joined for the wrong reason, or if they do not truly feel the pain of the problem, they are far less likely to follow through. So her implied retention framework has at least four parts: useful content, immediate support, accountability, and committed fit. In the episode transcript, she treats these not as nice extras, but as the real mechanics of member experience and long-term retention.

How does Nathalie Doremieux decide whether someone is ready for a membership?

One of the most distinctive ideas in this Nathalie Guest Shows episode is Doremieux’s willingness to tell prospective clients not to launch a membership yet. She says that when people come to her with an idea, she does not start with platforms, tools, or setup. Even though she has a technical background, she deliberately postpones tool talk because, as she explains, tools only matter after the business idea itself is clear. First she wants to understand the idea, the motivation behind it, and the emotional energy the founder has for it.

Her method is conversational but diagnostic. In the transcript, Doremieux says she listens for excitement and asks why the person wants to create the membership. If the reasons are mainly reactive, such as "my course does not sell" or "my coaching is too expensive so I need something cheaper," she says those are not good reasons. She explicitly rejects the assumption that a membership is easier to sell than a $5,000 or $10,000 coaching program. In her view, a membership is not a fallback product for a struggling business model. It needs its own strategic logic and its own genuine commitment.

What she is really testing is vision. She says some people in her own program ended up not launching a membership, and she presents that as a positive outcome because it helped them stop forcing themselves into a format that did not fit. In the episode, she ties procrastination to misalignment: sometimes the delay is not laziness or lack of discipline, but evidence that the offer is not the right next move. That is a strong and unusually candid point.

Her standard for readiness is whether the founder lights up around the idea and would keep going after an imperfect first launch. If the person quits at the first sign of friction, she suggests it was never really a vision; it was experimentation without conviction, what she compares to throwing spaghetti at the wall. For Doremieux, as heard on Nathalie Guest Shows, sustainable memberships are built by founders who actually want to keep serving that audience in that format over time.

What role does AI play in Nathalie Doremieux’s business strategy?

Doremieux describes AI in this episode as a practical support layer rather than a shiny trend. She says she and her team began exploring AI roughly four or five years ago, when using it still required developer-level experimentation rather than today’s widely available no-code tools. That timeline matters because she is not presenting herself as someone who adopted AI after it became fashionable. In the transcript, she frames the work as early, technical, and tied to operational needs.

Her first AI use case was client support. On Nathalie Guest Shows, Doremieux explains that the main question was how to use AI to accelerate support and improve the help clients receive on top of what they are already doing. That fits her broader philosophy that people need fast assistance at the moment of friction. AI, in this framing, is valuable because it can reduce waiting time and preserve momentum for learners or members who might otherwise stall.

From there, she says the next business need was lead generation, because every business needs sales and, before sales, it needs leads. That led to what she calls their latest product for podcasters: a system that takes a podcast episode and uses AI to create a customized lead magnet so listeners can take action on what they are learning. This is one of the most concrete strategic examples in the transcript because it links content, AI, lead capture, and action-oriented education in one workflow.

So in this episode, AI is not treated as a replacement for human teaching or strategic clarity. It is treated as an amplifier for support and lead generation. That distinction matters. Doremieux’s use of AI stays consistent with the rest of her philosophy: help people act faster, get unstuck sooner, and connect learning experiences to measurable business outcomes.

What is Nathalie Doremieux’s current vision for the next stage of the business?

The closing part of this Nathalie Guest Shows episode shifts from tactics to long-range business design. Doremieux says she is turning 54, that her husband is older, and that they are now thinking about retirement. Because of that, her vision is no longer centered on creating endless new offers or staying personally at the center of delivery. Instead, she wants to strengthen the business foundation so they can gradually remove themselves from daily operations.

That goal explains why she says they are going back to software. There is a full-circle quality to the story: they started as software engineers, moved through service work, e-learning, memberships, and AI-enhanced support, and are now returning to software as the most scalable and owner-independent model for this season. In the episode, she says software is attractive because it can sell without requiring either of them to show up live every time. She also emphasizes recurring income, saying she loves the predictability of knowing how the month begins.

There is also a personal dimension to this. Doremieux openly says she was not "born an entrepreneur" in the stereotypical sense and that her husband was the one who originally wanted to start the business. That honesty sharpens the lesson. Her current vision is not built around hustle identity; it is built around fit. She wants a business model that matches how she is wired, supports long-term sustainability, and can continue running for 10 or 20 years.

That may be the most durable strategic insight in the transcript: your business vision should evolve with your life stage. In this episode, Doremieux does not talk about scale as a vanity metric. She talks about scale as the ability to create recurring revenue, reduce founder dependence, and build something sellable and durable enough to support the next chapter of life. For listeners thinking about succession, retirement, or owner-led fatigue, that is a very practical lens.

This transcript-derived analysis of Nathalie Guest Shows, episode "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1.", shows a consistent theme in Nathalie Doremieux’s thinking: results matter more than content volume, founder vision matters more than trendy formats, and scalable systems matter more as a business matures. For the full conversation, including her stories about software, course design, AI support, and recurring revenue, listen to the complete episode on Nathalie Guest Shows.

Key Takeaways

Key Definitions

Membership Lab
Membership Lab is the family business Nathalie Doremieux says she runs with her husband, a company she describes in the Nathalie Guest Shows transcript as evolving over 19 years from software roots into memberships, e-learning, and AI-powered support solutions.
Learner support and accountability
Learner support and accountability is the program design principle Nathalie Doremieux describes in this episode as giving people timely help, structure, and follow-through so they can act on lessons and reach results instead of stalling after consuming content.
Committed buyer fit
Committed buyer fit is the idea, drawn from Nathalie Doremieux’s episode transcript, that a course or membership works best when buyers genuinely need the outcome, feel the pain of the problem, and put time on their calendars to follow through.
Recurring revenue
Recurring revenue is the predictable income model Nathalie Doremieux praises in this Nathalie Guest Shows episode because it improves scalability and lets founders know how the business starts each month.
AI lead magnet creation
AI lead magnet creation is the workflow Nathalie Doremieux describes in the episode where a podcast episode is processed with AI to generate a customized resource that helps listeners take action and helps the business capture leads.

Claims & Evidence

Claim

Nathalie Doremieux says expertise alone does not make a product sell; early-stage founders must also learn sales and marketing.

Evidence

She explains that she and her husband created software products they thought were amazing, but those products never sold because they stayed within their software expertise and avoided sales and marketing, which she says scared her at the time.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." - Nathalie Guest Shows / "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." / published April 30, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." / published April 30, 2025
Claim

Nathalie Doremieux argues that most online courses are poorly designed for completion and learner success.

Evidence

In the transcript, she states that only 3% to 5% of people complete courses and then describes a common course model of content plus six to eight weekly calls, limited access to the expert, and a Facebook group that often ends before most participants finish.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." - Nathalie Guest Shows / "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." / published April 30, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." / published April 30, 2025
Claim

Nathalie Doremieux says support and accountability are now essential because content alone is no longer enough.

Evidence

She explicitly says compliance is a commodity now and that people need support and accountability, then describes an effective rhythm of shorter lessons followed by action and tools, including AI, to help learners move through points where they get stuck.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." - Nathalie Guest Shows / "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." / published April 30, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." / published April 30, 2025
Claim

Nathalie Doremieux does not believe a membership should be launched as a fallback because another offer is underperforming.

Evidence

She says she tells some clients they are not ready, and she specifically rejects reasons like a course not selling or coaching being too expensive, adding that a membership is not easier to sell than a $5,000 or $10,000 coaching program.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." - Nathalie Guest Shows / "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." / published April 30, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." / published April 30, 2025
Claim

Nathalie Doremieux’s current business vision is to build a more scalable, recurring-revenue software model that can operate with less founder involvement.

Evidence

Near the end of the conversation, she says she is turning 54, that she and her husband are thinking about retirement, and that they are going back to software because it is sellable, does not require them to show up, and can keep running for 10 to 20 years.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." - Nathalie Guest Shows / "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." / published April 30, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1." / published April 30, 2025

Key Questions Answered

What is Nathalie Doremieux's business background in this podcast episode?

In this Nathalie Guest Shows episode, Nathalie Doremieux says she and her husband are software engineers who lived in the United States for 10 years before moving back to the south of France for lifestyle reasons. She explains that they built The Membership Lab as a family business and evolved it over 19 years from software into e-learning, memberships, and AI-powered tools.

Why does Nathalie Doremieux say most online courses don't work?

According to Nathalie Doremieux in "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1.", most online courses fail because they rely too heavily on content and not enough on support, accountability, pacing, and buyer fit. She also cites a 3% to 5% completion rate and criticizes course businesses that measure success by sales volume rather than learner impact.

What makes people stay in a membership according to Nathalie Doremieux?

In the Nathalie Guest Shows transcript, Nathalie Doremieux says people stay when they get results. She connects those results to short, actionable content, timely support, accountability, and attracting people who genuinely want the outcome and are willing to make time for the work.

How does Nathalie Doremieux decide if someone should launch a membership?

Nathalie Doremieux says in this episode that she starts by exploring the person’s idea, motivation, and excitement level rather than discussing tools. If the membership idea is driven mainly by desperation, pricing pressure, or lack of conviction, she may tell the person not to launch because she does not see a real long-term vision behind it.

Does Nathalie Doremieux think memberships are easier to sell than coaching?

No. In this Nathalie Guest Shows episode, Nathalie Doremieux explicitly says a membership is not easier to sell than a $5,000 or $10,000 coaching program. Her point is that a membership needs a clear reason to exist and should not be treated as the easy, cheaper fallback offer.

How does Nathalie Doremieux use AI in her business?

In the transcript, Nathalie Doremieux says her team started using AI around four or five years ago, first to accelerate and improve client support. She then explains that they expanded into lead generation by building a product that helps podcasters turn episodes into customized lead magnets with AI.

What is Nathalie Doremieux's current business vision?

In "What's your vision? Nathalie Doremieux. Podcast Session 1.", Nathalie Doremieux says her current vision is to strengthen the business foundation and return to software so she and her husband can gradually remove themselves from day-to-day operations. She emphasizes scalability, recurring income, and building something that can keep running for the next 10 to 20 years.

Why does Nathalie Doremieux criticize catch-up weeks in courses?

Nathalie Doremieux argues in this episode that a catch-up week sends the message that students are expected to fall behind. Her view is that course structure shapes behavior, so building lateness into the design can undermine momentum before the learner even begins.

Full Episode Transcript
Speaker A: Please share with me your first, last name, where you're located, and the name of your business, books, or anything else you do. Sure. Speaker B: My name is Nathalie Doremiot, and I live in the south of France, and I run a business with my husband. This is a family business called the Membership Lab, and we've been in business for 19 years. Speaker A: What? Congratulations. I love that. So please do me a favor and elaborate on the business, the Membership Lab. Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So obviously the business has evolved a lot, right, in 19 years. Uh, but basically we, we created this business when we moved back to France from the US because we met at school. And then after school we were like, okay, let's live the American dream. So let's move to the US and try to find a job there. And because we were software engineers, it was pretty easy at the time, you know, 1995. So we did that, stayed 10 years. And when we got back, we basically said, well, let's build a business. You know, we're moving back to France for the lifestyle. You know, that really was the key. And what do we know how to do? Software, right? Cause we're software engineers. So we did all the mistakes, you know, that you could possibly do, which like stay within your expertise and ignore the things that you don't know at that scale. Scare you, sales, marketing, you know, all that stuff. We created software that we thought were amazing that never sold because everybody was telling us, you need to be the first people to sell it. And I was like, no way, I'm not a salesperson. So learn quickly, not quickly enough, that at the beginning you have to wear different hats. Speaker A: Yes. Speaker B: But then you can strategically think, okay, this is not forever, this is the next step, and then I have in mind that I want to delegate this later. So it evolved. Turns out we did not ended up building software anymore. And really, we really got into e-learning, website development, because it was online, make more sense. We could reach, you know, the whole world. Speaker A: Absolutely. Speaker B: And then e-learning, because e-learning made, felt like this is something that people monetize. So they are more inclined to spend money, you know, and invest in something that is going to make them money. Right. So, and then we really got hooked with e-learning and how bad it was. I mean, to this day, most courses, people only come, like there are only 3 to 5% of people that complete courses. And that doesn't seem to bother people that keep selling courses on Teachable and Thinkific and all that stuff. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: They're like, they go for volume. So if you go for volume, okay. But for us, my husband and I was like, how can we improve the e-learning? So that's what we've been working on, really working with people that want to create an experience inside. I really understand that it's when people get results that they stay, that they buy more from you, that you get the testimonial, the case studies that you can use in your marketing. So it all comes back to you, right? So if you get your people to be successful, that's how you're gonna get successful, right? I think it's Seth Godin that is saying, if you want to be more successful, you have to help more people. Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's him. Speaker B: That's my doubt, but like, so that's, you know, that's basically where it's been evolving. Then when AI came, so for us that was like 4 or 5 years ago. Now it's like everybody, you have AI coaches and AI experts everywhere. But back in the day, I would say 4 or 5 years, you had to be a developer and you had to dig and really trial and errors and things to really create something. It was really like development. It was not like the no-code that everybody talks about now. And that we've been using AI, we've been trying to figure out how to use AI to accelerate client support. Because you can use it for your business and stuff like, but our primary focus was like, how can we use that as a tool to accelerate, provide better support on top of what people are already doing. And then the next thing, because, always keeping in mind that what every business wants and needs is money, sales, but for that they need leads. Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Speaker B: So then how can we use AI to help people get more leads? And that's how we came up with our latest product, which is for podcasters on how you turn a podcast episode like this. Speaker A: Yes. Speaker B: And then with AI, you create a customized lead magnet. —yes, to basically take action on what they are learning. So that's basically the evolution. Like, I gave you like a very quick— Speaker A: it's okay, and I love that because there was one thing that you said that I fall victim of, is getting on a program that's on a website and never finishing the program. I honestly don't know what that's about, you know, and as you have developed this out of the 19 years were you able to see what that was? You know, the— is it the engagement? Is it the lack of information, the excitement? I'm just very curious. Speaker B: Yeah, so it's actually a combination of things, but it also has evolved. So I don't know if you remember back in like in 2013, I think is when I bought like my first course, like 2,000-3,000. You'd get the course and then you'd get weekly calls for like 6 or 8 weeks. Then you get maybe a Facebook group if you're lucky. Yeah. And then, but in the Facebook group, it's like, oh, you cannot tag the person because it's going to be overwhelming for her. Right. So she's not approachable. You cannot like ask her a question or anything like that. And after the 6 weeks, she leaves the Facebook group and you're done. Yeah. And most people in this group, have not completed, some are overwhelmed, some are almost there, but most of them are like even giving up. You know, when people say, well, don't worry, you have access for life. Yes. Yeah, well, it's just collecting dust, you know. So this doesn't work anymore. Yeah. The problem with this is that they would always manage to get 10, 20, 30 people that made it And that would be their case studies. And they would say, oh, look, this is working. Oh, like, this is the thing. Like, oh my gosh. Like, I can't stand that because this is so hypocrite. Yeah. To say, look how it's working. This is how much money I made. A course should not be, the success of a course should not be based on how much money you made, but how much impact you had on people. And they are not even tracking progress. So they don't even know that means that deep down they don't even care, and they are about volume. So that was the problem. Now, why people were not getting results. Some people got tricked into the marketing message. Unfortunately, our ability to sell and market has nothing to do with our ability to teach or coach or mentor, right? You can be great at something, have an amazing course, and it will never sell because it's a different strategy. Same goes for marketing and sales. Good marketing and salespeople can sell you anything. They can sell you the dream, right? And then it doesn't happen, or there is something missing. I think that fundamentally what is missing in this program is not looking at what do people really need in order to get a result. It used to be content, content, you know, this is my expertise, so I'm going to do a video, I'm going to share or something, and I'm telling them what to do and that should be enough. Compliance is a commodity now. People need support and accountability. Yeah. But they also need to be the right people. That means that if you got people to join because you give them like a huge discount and you said it will never be available again, and so they join, but they don't really need it. The pain is not there. They're not going to be committed. So you need committed people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The people that cannot put time in the calendar and say, I've blocked this time because I bought this course and I want the outcome. So very often what happens when people don't finish is either they get overwhelmed, the course is going in such a pace that they are not allowing people For like, you have to catch the train, otherwise you're left behind. And when you're too behind, that's typically the course that is going to have a week for catch-up. Really bad idea. Why? Because you're planting the seed that there is a potential that they're going to be late at this point. Yes. Right? Oh, I'm going to add a week where we don't do anything so people can catch up. So people are not signing up to stuff. And basically you're telling them that they're going to be late before they even start. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So it's, I think it's all that dynamic that has changed. Yeah. And now people want support, but they want support right away. They don't want to have to wait. And that's why AI is so amazing now, right? They want also accountability. They want, it's this learning, doing, learning, doing. They don't want to watch 1 hour of video. They want to watch a shorter video and then you get them things to do. And then if they, if they are not able to do this because they are stuck, do you have tools for them to help them, whether it is AI or something else, to get to that next decision that they are making, right? So I think it's all of this. Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And it, and it, it definitely sounds very familiar. And as I mentioned, you know, that was, that's things that I experienced is the fact that I either get bored or that support is no longer there, or I have to I have to search for the support to get the support. So what sets you apart, Natalie? What sets the Membership Lab apart from everyone else? Speaker B: So I would say what sets us apart is this idea, and people get sometimes, they get, they're surprised, but then they understand and they are relieved and they appreciate that, is that when somebody comes to me with an idea, There are clients where I do say, no, I'm not going to build your membership because you're not ready. And even I had a program at one point where I was helping people getting their first member for their membership, their program. And I said, they start talking about their idea. We don't talk about tools. You know, I build the tech, but I never talk about the tools. I'm like, are we going to talk about the tools? Say, no, we're not going to talk about the tools now. Because the tools is the thing to make it happen. Until we figure out what the thing is, I'm not gonna overwhelm you with tools you need to buy. Let's talk about your idea. And what I'm trying to gauge is how excited are they about this idea and why they are doing it. And even in my program, you know, I was, there are like several, I was like, well, the way you're talking about it, I'm sorry. Like if I would say to you, like, Tavonka, I'm sorry, but like, I don't see like, the big excitement. So tell me more, why, why, right? And we talk and we talk until something lights up. I say, this, this is how you need to feel. 'Cause if you don't feel it, how do you expect people to feel it? Yes, yes, yes. And there are people in that program that ended up not launching a membership. Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker B: And they did the program and they didn't, but they still thank me because they're like, now I know I'm not stuck in something and wondering why am I procrastinating? Because that's not what you're supposed to do. That's not your vision. It's the thing that you feel is the next right thing. And you're like, well, it sounds hard because it's putting out of my comfort zone. But if it's not exciting you at the same time, then it tells you something, right? So that's how I go. I go like, tell me about your idea. Why do you want to do this? Okay, you want to do this because your course doesn't sell, because your coaching program is too expensive, so you want to do something cheaper. I'm like, those are not good reasons. Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They are not good reasons. Speaker B: A membership is not easier to sell than a $5K or $10K coaching program. It's not. Yeah. Right? So what it is that you really, really want, and people don't know what they want. Speaker A: No, no. And then when they get what they think they want, then they don't really want it. So I definitely get that. Speaker B: So what happens is that when we get there and I have somebody, yeah, I know exactly, that is the person that is going to say if something doesn't work, she's going to try another way and they're going to keep trying and keep— she's going to keep trying because she wants to get there. Versus when somebody tries something and the first launch doesn't work, Oh, it doesn't go as planned. Well, I'm going to go and do something else now. Well, then that was not really a vision, right? You are just trying the spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks, right? And that's no way to run a scalable, profitable business. Speaker A: But tell me about your vision today. Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So the vision today is, so I'm turning, gosh, 54 this year. Good. Looking good. So I'm turning 54 and my husband is older than me. So we are thinking retirement, right? So the vision now is not about creating new things, you know, like it's about establishing a strong foundation where we can start to remove ourselves from the business. And that's why we're going back to the software, right? Which we, is the idea, right? That's how we started the business in the first place. I love to say that I was not born an entrepreneur. My husband was the entrepreneur. He wanted to start the business. So I kind of like went with him so we can do this together. And so it's nice that we are going back like full circle and now going back to software because software is something where I don't have to show up. He doesn't have to show up. It is sellable. Right. It is recurring income, which is something I love. Somebody, as someone who's not an entrepreneur, by, by in my genes, you know, in my bones, I love scalability. So that's why I love the recurring system because I know exactly how we start our months and things like that. Um, that, that all makes sense now. Right. So, um, I think that everything that we went through, It's just leading up to where we are. And you know when we say you are exactly to be where you're supposed to be? Like even what we are doing kind of like nails with a domain name that we bought 20 years ago, 19 years ago. Just to tell you how like the full circle, we had a moment this, I think that was this weekend. We were like, wow, we could use this. You know? So it's, that's the vision we have is creating something that is scalable and that, you know, we can keep running for like 10, 20 years. Speaker C: Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward. This is gonna get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show. And thank you for giving us your time and attention. Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.

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