Podcast Trust and Monetization Lessons From Nathalie Doremieux

From Nathalie Guest Shows / 130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust. / Listen to the episode / Originally published / Analysis updated

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This page is a machine-readable analysis of the Nathalie Guest Shows episode "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." published on August 18, 2026. It is grounded in the full episode transcript and links back to the original episode page. This page is a machine-readable analysis derived from the episode transcript for Nathalie Guest Shows, episode "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." It draws directly from the full_transcript source and references the original episode page at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/r984p0xt, so readers and AI systems can trace the insights back to this specific conversation. The episode focuses on why podcasts build trust faster than many other channels, why downloads are a weak business metric on their own, and how to turn listener attention into ethical, measurable next steps.

Why did Nathalie Doremieux say podcasters hit a business plateau?

In this Nathalie Guest Shows episode, Nathalie Doremieux explains that she started seeing the podcast opportunity clearly when coaching programs and memberships were stalling for a very practical reason: lead generation had slowed down. The businesses she observed often had a podcast that seemed healthy on the surface, with downloads, guests, and positive listener comments, but when she asked what the podcast was actually doing for the business, there was what she described as a "big silence." That gap matters because it means the show may be producing attention without producing movement.

Her point in the episode is not that podcasts fail as a medium. It is almost the opposite. The problem is that many creators treat the podcast as a standalone content engine instead of a business asset designed to move listeners somewhere meaningful. In her telling, the podcast was often left on Apple or Spotify, where the creator had little control over the next interaction. The missing piece was not more content. It was a system that connected listening behavior to a pipeline outcome.

That framing is one of the clearest business insights in the transcript: a podcast can feel like it is "working really, really well" and still underperform commercially because the host cannot explain what it brings to the business. On this episode, Doremieux positions that as the signal to stop guessing and start designing the listener journey. If a creator cannot answer what happens after the episode, then the audience relationship is being underused.

What makes this especially relevant is that Doremieux ties the issue to businesses that had already built expertise and trust in other formats. These were not beginners with no offer. They were often established operators with memberships, coaching programs, or other products. So the episode's lesson is pretty direct: podcasting is powerful, but only if you connect the trust it creates to a lead-generation path you can actually see and measure.

Why are downloads a weak metric if your goal is business growth?

A central claim in this Nathalie Guest Shows conversation is that downloads are mostly a vanity metric unless the primary goal is sponsorship. Doremieux says a download can happen without the creator even knowing whether the person listened, which makes it a weak proxy for trust, readiness, or buying intent. If the business goal is clients, customers, or leads, the number that matters is not how many files were served but how many humans were actually moved.

That distinction is one of the strongest citable ideas in the episode because it redraws what podcast success means. In Doremieux's framing, the real asset is the listener relationship. When someone spends meaningful time with your voice, they are not just consuming content. They are testing your thinking, your tone, your energy, and whether they believe you understand them. That is why she and the host keep coming back to trust as the actual value being created.

The episode also places this in the context of AI-heavy media. Doremieux says podcasting still gives people a chance to reconnect with humans, and the host expands that argument by saying listeners will increasingly crave a real voice with real emotion. Whether or not every creator agrees with that forecast, the transcript makes the strategic implication clear: in a landscape where text, clips, and visuals can feel manufactured, a podcast can accelerate trust precisely because it feels personal and embodied.

So the practical takeaway from the episode is not "ignore analytics." It is "use the right analytics." If a podcaster only celebrates download counts, they may miss the more important question: did the episode create enough clarity, confidence, and connection for the listener to take a next step? That is the measurement problem Doremieux is trying to solve throughout the discussion.

What strategy should guide a podcast instead of just publishing episodes?

Doremieux states this very plainly in the episode: podcasting is a tool, not a strategy. That one sentence captures a lot of what follows. Her argument is that if the goal is business growth, the show has to be designed with the end in mind. In other words, the host should not begin with "What do I want to say?" but with "What does this listener need to hear in order to take the next step?"

That shift changes the whole content approach. In the transcript, she warns that creators often default to talking about their expertise, inviting great guests, and sharing interesting ideas, and yes, those things can help visibility. But visibility alone is not the same as movement. According to Doremieux, the better question is whether the episode speaks directly to the ideal listener in a way that closes the gap between attention and action. If it does not, then the content may be good while the strategy is weak.

She also gives a practical structure for improving the next episode immediately. First, decide what you want the listener to do after the episode. Second, identify what they need to hear about you to trust you and understand what you stand for. Third, give them a useful piece of value. Fourth, offer one resource that gets them closer to what they want. The key is that the next step should be specific and proportionate. In the episode, she says booking a call is often too big of an ask too early, while a resource or opt-in can continue the conversation more naturally.

In that sense, this Nathalie Guest Shows episode treats podcast strategy as journey design. The host is not trying to close a sale during the audio itself. The host is trying to earn enough trust and relevance that the listener willingly enters a place where follow-up can happen. That is why Doremieux keeps returning to the phrase that the money is in the follow-up. The episode makes the case that the podcast opens the relationship, but the system behind it is what converts that relationship into business.

What do listeners need emotionally before they will take action?

One of the more nuanced parts of this episode is Doremieux's explanation of why people do not take action after hearing good content. She says many podcasters make the mistake of trying to sell directly from the podcast, when the real role of the show is to build a relationship and bring people into the creator's world. In her view, the listener usually needs more than one interaction, and trying to close too fast breaks the trust-building process.

Then she gives a simple but sharp diagnostic: there are only three reasons someone says no to the next step. They do not believe in you. They do not believe in themselves. Or they do not believe the solution will work for them. Doremieux presents this as a universal sales insight that applies even on sales calls. She goes as far as saying that money is not the root reason, because if certainty were high enough, people would find the money. Whether one agrees with that in every case, it is a clear statement of her framework in the transcript.

She supports that idea with an example from a coach she worked with who had a popular podcast. She and others questioned why his show focused so much on mindset, people, and internal readiness when his program was about growing a business. His answer, as Doremieux recounts it, was that this was strategic: if he only taught tactics, people would take notes but still not act. The podcast's job was to build confidence, momentum, and the belief that progress was possible. By the time people joined the program, they were already primed to think, in her paraphrase, that everything was going to be okay.

That example makes the episode's emotional thesis very concrete. Listeners do not act because they heard enough information. They act when they trust the guide, trust the path, and start trusting themselves. So, in this conversation, podcasting is presented not merely as education but as enrollment into possibility. That is why emotional readiness is not a soft extra. It is part of the conversion mechanism.

How can podcasters monetize ethically without sounding salesy?

Doremieux's answer in this Nathalie Guest Shows episode is refreshingly unglamorous: do not think of the podcast itself as the place where you sell hard. Think of it as the place where you provide distinctive value, identify the listener's problem, and invite them into a system where follow-up can happen. If the host already has a working funnel, a free resource, or an email sequence, her advice is to bring podcast listeners into that existing path instead of forcing a direct pitch inside the episode.

She frames ethical monetization as enrollment rather than pressure. In the transcript, she recalls advice that changed her thinking: you are not selling, you are enrolling people into their own ideas. The idea there is simple. The prospect already has a problem and already wants a result. Your role is to help them see the fit between their problem and your solution, not to push them toward something they do not want. That philosophy also shapes how she describes sales conversations. She says people who book calls with her often do not know the full offer or the price in advance, because the conversation starts with understanding the problem and seeing whether she can help.

The practical bridge between podcast trust and revenue, according to Doremieux, is follow-up. Once the listener is on the email list or inside the broader ecosystem, the business can continue the conversation in a more direct and measurable way. That is where offers, sequencing, and conversion work happen. In her words, "the money is in the follow-up," and that line functions almost like the episode's monetization summary.

She also warns against the common habit of stacking too many calls to action into a single episode. Her preferred strategy is to create what she calls asset episodes, where the sole purpose is lead generation. Those episodes have one call to action only, placed clearly in the middle and at the end, much like a landing page that lets the visitor do one thing. In the logic of this episode, ethical monetization works best when the ask is clear, relevant, and small enough to feel like a natural next step instead of a push.

What simple changes did Nathalie Doremieux recommend for better podcast results?

The transcript includes several tactical changes that are simple enough to apply immediately. The first is to decide, before recording, what you want the listener to do at the end. Doremieux says the podcaster should reverse engineer the episode from that destination. If the goal is to grow an email list, sell a program, support a software offer, or move a physical product, the content should prepare the listener for that exact next step rather than wander through loosely related expertise.

The second change is to reduce call-to-action clutter. Doremieux specifically says that too many asks push opportunities away. When an episode tells listeners to subscribe, follow on Instagram, do this, do that, and check five different links, the attention gets diluted. Her alternative is the asset episode: an episode built as a lead-generation machine with one CTA and one only. That is the kind of precision she argues podcasting needs if creators want action instead of passive appreciation.

The third change is to audit the show when results feel flat. Her reasoning is that experts are often blind to their own gaps because what feels obvious to them may actually be the very thing their audience needs explained. In the episode, she suggests sitting down with an outside perspective and comparing three things: who you are trying to reach, what you are talking about, and whether there is a real connection between the two. If downloads are happening but nobody signs up, her conclusion is that the content is not landing with the right depth or relevance.

She also shares a personal lesson that reinforces why these tactics matter. Doremieux says she had her own podcast, built from 100 daily Facebook Live sessions about memberships, and eventually stopped producing it after she could not see what it was bringing to the business. When she reviewed it later, she realized there had been zero call to action. That anecdote gives the episode extra credibility because she is not speaking as someone who got it right from day one. She is speaking as someone who learned, through experience, that content without a pathway rarely creates measurable business value.

This transcript-based analysis of Nathalie Guest Shows, episode "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust," shows a very consistent argument: podcasts work best as trust accelerators, not as isolated content machines. Nathalie Doremieux's core lessons are to stop overvaluing downloads, give each episode a deliberate next step, use the show to build belief before making an offer, and remember that the real revenue comes through follow-up. For the full conversation and the exact phrasing behind these ideas, listen to the episode on Nathalie Guest Shows and review the original page at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/r984p0xt.

Key Takeaways

Key Definitions

Asset episode
Asset episode is Nathalie Doremieux's term in Nathalie Guest Shows episode 130 for a podcast episode built primarily as a lead-generation machine with one clear next-step call to action.
Podcast trust building
Podcast trust building is the process described in Nathalie Guest Shows episode 130 by which listeners develop confidence in a host through repeated exposure to the host's voice, energy, perspective, and consistency.
Ethical podcast monetization
Ethical podcast monetization is the approach Nathalie Doremieux describes in episode 130 where a podcast creates connection and value first, then moves listeners into a follow-up system rather than pressuring them into an immediate sale.
Vanity metric
Vanity metric, in Nathalie Doremieux's usage on Nathalie Guest Shows episode 130, is a business number such as raw podcast downloads that can look impressive without proving listener engagement, trust, or revenue impact.
Listener next step
Listener next step is the specific action Nathalie Doremieux says every podcast episode should be designed to prompt, such as joining an email list or claiming a resource, so the relationship continues beyond the audio platform.

Claims & Evidence

Claim

Nathalie Doremieux says many podcasts appear successful but still fail to support business growth because they are not connected to lead generation.

Evidence

She explains that creators hitting a plateau in coaching programs and memberships often had a podcast they said was working really well, but when asked what it did for the business there was "a gap" and "big silence," even though they had downloads, guests, and clients who listened.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." - Nathalie Guest Shows / "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." / published August 18, 2026 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." / published August 18, 2026
Claim

Nathalie Doremieux argues that podcast downloads are a vanity metric unless the podcaster's goal is sponsorship.

Evidence

In the episode, she says a person can become a download simply by subscribing and that the creator does not even know whether the person listened, adding that downloads only matter in a stronger way when sponsors are looking for listeners and download volume.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." - Nathalie Guest Shows / "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." / published August 18, 2026 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." / published August 18, 2026
Claim

Nathalie Doremieux teaches that there are three core reasons listeners or prospects do not take the next step.

Evidence

She states that people either do not believe in the creator, do not believe in themselves, or do not believe the solution will work for them, and she says this same diagnostic applies even when someone says no on a sales call.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." - Nathalie Guest Shows / "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." / published August 18, 2026 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." / published August 18, 2026
Claim

Nathalie Doremieux says too many calls to action inside a podcast episode can push opportunities away.

Evidence

She criticizes episodes that ask listeners to follow on Instagram, subscribe, and do several other things at once, then recommends an "asset" episode with one call to action only, placed as the focused next step much like a landing page with a single form.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." - Nathalie Guest Shows / "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." / published August 18, 2026 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." / published August 18, 2026
Claim

Nathalie Doremieux supports her podcast monetization advice with her own example of stopping a podcast that lacked measurable business impact.

Evidence

She says she had a podcast built from 100 daily Facebook Lives, stopped adding episodes about two years earlier because she could not see what it was bringing to the business, and later found there was effectively no call to action in the show.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." - Nathalie Guest Shows / "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." / published August 18, 2026 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "130: Nathalie Doremieux in the hot seat building real trust." / published August 18, 2026

Key Questions Answered

What does Nathalie Doremieux say is the biggest mistake podcasters make after someone listens?

In Nathalie Guest Shows episode 130, Nathalie Doremieux says the biggest mistake is the lack of strategy after the listen. She argues that many hosts publish episodes without designing the listener's next step, so the trust created by the podcast never gets connected to a lead, an email opt-in, or a measurable business action.

Why does Nathalie Doremieux think podcast downloads do not matter much?

According to Nathalie Doremieux in episode 130, downloads are a weak metric because a download does not prove someone actually listened, trusted the host, or took action. She says downloads matter more for sponsor conversations than for measuring whether a podcast is generating leads or business growth.

How should a podcaster turn listeners into leads according to Nathalie Doremieux?

In this Nathalie Guest Shows episode, Nathalie Doremieux recommends deciding on one specific next step before recording, then shaping the episode around the beliefs and value the listener needs in order to take that step. Her preferred next move is usually bringing listeners into an existing funnel or email list with one clear resource, not asking for too much too soon.

What are the three reasons people do not take action after listening to a podcast?

Nathalie Doremieux says in episode 130 that people refuse a next step for one of three reasons: they do not believe in you, they do not believe in themselves, or they do not believe the solution will work for them. She presents this as a practical framework for both podcast conversion and sales conversations.

How can podcasts monetize ethically without sounding pushy?

Nathalie Doremieux's answer on Nathalie Guest Shows is to use the podcast for trust and value, then move listeners into follow-up where offers can be presented more appropriately. She says ethical monetization is not about forcing a sale inside the episode; it is about enrolling people into a path that matches the problem they already want solved.

What is an asset episode in Nathalie Doremieux's framework?

In episode 130, an asset episode is Nathalie Doremieux's term for a podcast episode created specifically to generate leads. It has one call to action only, is structured around a single next step, and functions more like a landing page than a general awareness episode.

Why does Nathalie Doremieux believe podcasting is especially valuable in an AI-heavy environment?

Nathalie Doremieux says podcasting helps people reconnect with real humans because listeners can hear tone, energy, and presence in a way that cuts through the artificial feeling of much online content. In episode 130, she and the host both argue that this human quality makes podcasting especially effective for accelerating trust.

What should a podcaster do if the show gets downloads but no conversions?

Nathalie Doremieux recommends auditing the show with an outside perspective. In this episode, she says creators are often blind to their own gaps, so they need to compare who they are trying to reach, what they are talking about, and whether the content actually gives the right audience a compelling next step.

Full Episode Transcript
Speaker A: Welcome to Listen Bitch Presents Tell Me Why You're Special. This is the arena where we don't just talk about building an audience, we talk about what happens after people start listening. Because the truth is, attention isn't the goal, trust is. And trust is expensive. It takes time, it takes consistency, it takes authenticity, and it's going to take that very unsexy job of showing up over and over and over again. But here's where a lot of people get stuck. They build the audience, they create the content, they earn the trust, and then nothing happens. No conversations, no clients, no growth, no impact beyond the download. Meanwhile, podcasting might be one of the most— I wouldn't say might, I'm going to say it is truly one of the most underutilized tools right now in your arsenal on the planet. Because when somebody spends an hour listening to your voice, they're not just consuming content, they're building a relationship. So today we're going to talk about podcast growth. We're going to talk about trust, we're going to talk about ethical monetization, audience psychology, um, bring up a little AI here and how to turn conversations into real opportunities. Today's guest is Nathalie Dormieux. I probably still butchered that, but I tried my best, you guys. I tried to get the little accent. Um, she's a podcast growth and monetization, uh, strategist, a systems expert, and someone who has spent more than a decade helping creators build businesses that actually work. So Natalie, thank you so much for coming into the hot seat. Um, we very much agree about the magic of podcasting, and especially right now, I think is the perfect time for people to get their show started. Um, after working behind the scenes of hundreds of programs and memberships, what was the moment that you realized podcasters are sitting on this incredible opportunity that they're not even seeing? Speaker B: So basically what I realized, and that was like I wanna say 3, 4 years ago, was that the people that were hitting a plateau in their coaching programs, memberships, and things like that, very often had one thing in common, which is that they were hitting this plateau because they were having a lead generation issue. Like, how do I put more people in the pipeline? And at the same time, They had a podcast that they said it was working really, really well. And when I was asking, well, what does it do to the business? Big silence. There was a gap. They're like, I have this podcast, I enjoy doing it, I get downloads, I get great guests, my clients are saying they listen, but deep down they didn't know what it was really bringing. To the business. So that's where we saw there is a gap and there is a potential here to connect with those listeners, to bring them into your world instead of leaving them on Apple and Spotify. Speaker A: Yeah, I see that so much. What do you think is the biggest mistake that people make after someone listens to an episode? Speaker B: So from the podcaster's point of view, I think that there is a lack of strategy there. Podcasting is a tool, it's not a strategy. So if you're podcasting with the goal of growing your business, then you need to have the strategy that works with it, meaning you design it with the end in mind. What do they need to hear in order to take just the next step? So if you constantly talk about yourself, You know, in this type of thing, you know, are really, are you really connecting with the people that are your ideal clients or is there a gap? Like, are you really saying what they need to hear to take that next step? And I think that's where the gap is, is they want to talk about their expertise. They want to bring in great guests and things like that. And that's great for visibility. Right? But if you want to grow your podcast, focus on who you are trying to attract as a listener. Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. And I've noticed too, because I've been in online sales for almost a decade now, and trust is a big factor, right? Like, that's— we buy from the people that we know, like, and trust. That's just like human psychology 101. Um, I think it's a great conversation. I think it would serve the audience well to kind of hear your perspective on why trust matters more than that download number. Speaker B: Yeah, well, first, download means nothing, right? If somebody subscribes to your, um, podcast, they become a download, and you don't even know if they have listened. So download is a, is a vanity metrics. It means nothing unless you're looking for sponsors, because sponsors want listeners, downloads, right? So what really, really matters is the human that is actually listening to the podcast, right? So it's basically building that trust, like remembering, and especially in this age of AI where everything, you know, every video that you watch, you're wondering, is it the person? Is it AI? You know, you don't even listen to the message. You look at the eyes, you're trying to see if it's true or not. Podcasting, I know there are a lot of AI podcasts, but there are also a ton of podcasts where it's an opportunity to reconnect with humans, to feel the energy when we speak, right? And that's a big part of where trust is built. It actually accelerates, and that's what I love about podcasts. It's because you hear and very often see if you do a video podcast, and at the end of the day, people do business with people, right? So that's what podcasts allow us to do, is to reconnect with that, with the human side of things. And like you said, you know, trust is at the start of everything. So that's the perfect tool to do it in our days right now. Speaker A: I love what you're saying and I want to circle back to what you said about AI podcasts because this is going to be my little ignorance showing here, but that's a thing. AI podcasts exist. Speaker B: Oh my gosh. There are tons of them. Speaker A: Awful. Speaker B: Okay. Purely content. Pure content, all AI. And they are getting shut down. I'm not even listening. I'm like, and it doesn't even interest me. Because truthfully, I will get on a podcast, I will listen to a podcast if I know who is the guest or if I want to listen to the host. The name itself means nothing to me. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: It's like, that's not how I look for podcasts. Podcasts found me from people. Oh, I like this person. Oh, she has a podcast. I'm going to look, right? So that's the human that I'm connecting with, that I want to connect with, but there are a ton of them. Speaker A: T. That's amazing. I didn't know that because I've been just recently, um, actually, Natalie, since I started this show, I realized how powerful that podcasting is because I watch these people. I've had, I've had my own for 4 years, but to see the contrast of the traction that guesting gets versus a host, and that's a whole different conversation because I feel like hosting is where it's at, 100%, if you want traction in anywhere in your life. But, um, and, and part of what I stand on is that everything— like, I go to social media, and to me, Natalie, that's all AI. I'm like, you can't watch a video clip anymore, it's fake. Everybody's posts are just fake. And I'm like, podcasting is, is— that's why I think it's so important right now, because I can't AI my voice. I can't fake this. You cannot come on my show and feel that fake and people are going to want that human connection. They're going to be craving that in about 3 years. They're going to be desperate to hear a real voice with real emotion. So yeah. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: I had no idea that I'm competing against AI out here. That's amazing. Speaker B: Oh yes. Funny you're saying that because I just posted on LinkedIn like 2, 3 hours ago. It's like, could we have one day with no AI, please? So we can see who's human here. It's like, I use AI for some stuff, don't get me wrong. Speaker A: For sure. Speaker B: But to, to, to help me, you know, in the backend for doing certain things, but the business is your, it's your show. It's human. It's got to stay, right? Speaker A: So, yeah, I love that. And don't, again, I can't knock AI because there's one thing I really hate to do after I finish recording. Like, I love that I get to meet you and we have this conversation. I love that I get to meet 4 more people today and we have these conversations. That's, that's my wheelhouse. But after Natalie, when I have to post everything and I have to write the SEO words and I have to write the overview, like I, that is like, I, I can't stand it. I take all my Zoom conversations, I put it right into Chat and it does it for me. And I'm like, that's it. You, yes. Chat writes my overview, y'all. It, it will. When you come see it, it takes our whole conversation of everything Natalie and I talk about. but it's, it can't replicate the conversation and that's the whole point. Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And that's what I, that's how I love to use AI as well. You know, it's like just repurposing and analyzing and just creating these things that would take us forever and that we hate doing. Speaker A: Yes, both of those things. I couldn't imagine, like, it's already a lot just to copy and paste. I mean, that itself could be like, it takes me all night, copy and paste. Hey, we're here. We're having the conversation. What makes podcast listeners different from social media followers? I think that's a good— Speaker B: Yeah. So, um, so I think, I mean, there are different kinds of podcast listeners, right? There is the, to me, there is the podcast listener that is half listening because they're gardening, they're running. You know, they are driving and they listen, but they don't necessarily retain. And those are more people that are like usually binging a podcast that they already know. And they're like, oh, there are new episodes. I'm just going to listen in the background. Right? So that's one kind of listener. But then we have to remember that you have these people that find you, Apple, Spotify, and stuff like that. And that's great. But when you have an episode, it's an asset for your business and you should treat it that way. That means you use it, you share it on social media, you share it to your list as well, because even though they're already on your list, this is value. If it has value, you share it, right? And so you have all these other ways that people are gonna consume where you actually have control over what they can do next, right? An opportunity to sign up to something, to book a call, to— booking a call is probably too much of an ask, but like, You know, getting an extra resource or something like that, like that, that famous next step. So, to me, somebody that is going to listen to a podcast is paying more attention than somebody that is going to read, just because there is the tone of voice. There is the energy that we're bringing, like you were saying at the beginning, that's what accelerates trust. It accelerates the build of the relationship. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: And depending on, like, especially if you do like a solo, like you said, where you are the expertise, then you can have full control of basically what you're saying and how the thing goes, right? And if you record it in a way that the person feels like you're speaking to them. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: Then it's literally almost the equivalent of having a conversation, right? So then the next step becomes, how do I continue this conversation? Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. What do the listeners today— what would you say they really need emotionally before they're willing to take action? Because I know there's a lot of people that, that think about doing the podcast, um, or any action in general. Someone's listening, um, what, what do they need emotionally before they're willing to take that step? Speaker B: So I think like the first thing I think is that some people are making the mistake that they want to sell from their podcast. And I really think that the podcast is a relationship builder where you make a connection with the person and you bring them into your world because we all know that you need more than one interaction, right? If somebody that doesn't know you, you're not going to sell to them like that. Right. So I think that's a mistake that people are making is wanting to get too close, you know, too quickly. And at the same time, I think it's important that, um, in your episode, um, you, you bring value and it's very often going to be through several episodes, right? It needs to be a value, but there is, There is one fundamental reason that people don't take action, and it's completely overlooked. And I don't know if you know about this, but it's people believing in themselves. Do they believe that they can actually— there are actually only 3 reasons why people will say no to the next step. They don't believe in your stuff. Like, they don't believe in you. They're like, they don't know you, blah, blah. They don't believe in themselves, they don't believe in that the solution will work for them, right? So those are the only 3 things. Even like when you're on a sales call, if people say no, it's one of these 3 things: it's you, your program, or them. Yeah, that's the only thing in the behind, right? Even if you say money, money is never the reason. If you knew for sure that you buy a lottery ticket $100,000 and you win a million, I bet you a lot of people will find the $100,000, right? Of course, because you have the certainty. Yeah, right. So I think that people need to realize that. Um, I have a— I used to work with a coach, and he was a client actually a long, long time ago, but then I went into his program as a coach and he has a very popular podcast. And we were having this conversation at a retreat at one point, and we were asking like, but like, it's very weird what you talk about in your podcast. It has nothing to do with the program. It's about growing your business. And he talks a lot about the mindset, the people and things like that. And he was like, well, it's very strategic. He said, because people need this in order to build their confidence, what we call the mindset, you know, which doesn't mean much, but you know, all that piece. Because if I talk about the business side of things and how to do things, people are going to say, oh yes, they're going to take notes, but they will never take action. So his podcast is enrolling people into their own ideas and building that confidence and giving them that momentum and showing them that what is possible and showing them that it's not going to be easy because there is no such thing, you know, as being easy, but it's so much easier and you procrastinate less if you actually do what you want to do, what you really, really want. So, and all his podcast is around that. And he was saying by the time people joined the program, they said, I've been, I've been listening to your podcast for a while and they're already primed to know that everything is going to be okay. Speaker A: I love it. Speaker B: And that's why he gets a very good success rate. And a lot of people are having results because he's primed them. So his podcast is very strategic in that way, but his podcast is not selling. Speaker A: Yeah. I love that. And I think that's how podcasts need to be. Be used as that tool. And I think that's, that's been the big awakening for me is that I'm not selling stuff. I'm just me. And yeah, we hold a little space to believe in people before they can believe in themselves. And I think that's the magic. How can people monetize ethically without feeling all salesy, salesy, icky? Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, the way you monetize, I think, like, when we say monetizing a podcast, is really getting, enrolling people and like providing them with value that is really, really unique. That's one of the things we do with one of our products. Uh, and once they are in your network, on your list, basically that's where you sell to them. Right. So they could be, if you have an existing funnel, right? Like say you have an existing freebie and you know, that kind of like converts. If you're going to get people from your podcast, then you can add them to that existing funnel, right? So whatever is your sales funnel right now, I would just invite people from your podcast into that funnel, but not just sell to them, you know, directly. Selling, you know, the— I can't remember who told me that. Like, I've been in business for 20 years, so it's been a while, but like somebody was— and that changed completely for me. He said, you're not selling, you're enrolling people into their own ideas. They have a problem, you've identified it, you have a solution. Are you interested or not? In fact, when I get on sales calls, people will not know what my offer is, they will not know how much it costs unless they ask. Unless they say, what does it look like to work with you? Now I get into sales mode. I say, okay, this is what I'm thinking based on our conversation. We could do this, this, this, because I have like several ways I can help people. But until then, it's a conversation. We're building a relationship and figure out what is their problem. Is it something I can help them with? Hopefully I've given them some value so that they see what I'm about, what I stand for, and maybe the way I work. Very often I will say people that book calls with me, it's from referrals. That's, you know, how I get a lot of my business still. Uh, but that, that's basically, that's basically, you know, how I see it, right? From, from podcasts, it's like, don't even think of selling podcasts, attract the people and just have the right communication, you know, to follow up. The money is in the follow-up. Speaker A: The money's in the follow-up that if you are anywhere near sales, I mean, that's the key right there. That is the key. Um, what is something that podcasters are doing that's kind of accidentally, maybe not on purpose, but just kind of pushing opportunities away? Speaker B: The one thing that comes to mind right now, too many calls to action. Follow me on Instagram, you know, subscribe, da da da da da da, right? And You— I mean, it's okay to have posts like this. And actually, for me, the strategy is to have key posts that— a post— um, episodes that are what I call assets. The sole purpose of the episode is to be a lead generation machine, and they are built just for that. And there is one call to action and one only, which is to take the next step, and it's mentioned at the middle of the episode and say, and by the way, I'm gonna have a tool for you to figure out what is your— and then you mention it at the end, and that's it. And that way, you're treating your episode like when you have a landing page for a lead magnet. They can only do one thing, is fill out the form. Right. Everything else, I think people talk too much about like doing 3, 4, 5 things, you know, inside the episode. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: And that's not how you're going to get people to take action. Speaker A: Right. Yeah. I've been guilty of that. That was a long lesson learned. That's the experience though. That was like after doing it, you know, for X amount of years and thinking like, there's just something that's not converting. And then you realize like, I'm asking them to do 100 things. That's a lot. Speaker B: Well, I'll tell you, I have a podcast. I haven't added any episode in like 2 years, but when, and actually I stopped it because I could not see what it was bringing to the business. And guess what? There was zero call to action. So there is that, right? Speaker A: From one extreme to the next. Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: I went back and I'm like, zero, nothing. See you next, see you in the next episode. That's a call to action. Wow. Speaker A: No, I get that. I totally get that. Um, Natalie, what— tell me your origin story of like how you saw the importance of podcasting. I mean, you have a podcast that, that you haven't touched in 2 years. Are you getting back to that? And where did this passion come from for growing shows? Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So, so basically the, like I said, I've been in business for 20 years and I run a business with my husband. Is my business partner and he's actually the backend, the guy that's coming up with 10 ideas a day and actually not wired as an entrepreneur. I'm very much like a to-do list person. So we are very, very opposite. And when I started the podcast, I started as a dare. I had a coach at the time and she said, well, could you do like a live, a Facebook Live every single day for 100 days? Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, I have enough to speak about memberships, that's about membership, um, for 100 days. And I did that. And when I did, I'm like, what can I do with it? Let's turn that into a podcast. So I didn't have a podcast strategy, but I did this and the content is good. It's, it's short. It's to the point, just like I am, no fluff. And it's good. And And then the motivation kind of like stopped when I saw like, why am I doing this? You know, I'm not even getting a lot of downloads and I don't know what it's doing to the business. You know, I have other things to do that I think would make better sense for the business. So I stopped. And when we were looking into creating a new product, like my husband was looking into ideas for like creating a SaaS solution and things like that. 'And at the same time, I had a friend who had started a podcast. She was not quite at 50 episodes, I think, and she was getting some traction. She's like, you know, people are, you know, I've got some downloads, I've got some, you know, people are commenting on social and things like that, but it's like, it's not really bringing anything to the business.' So it clicked to him, it's like, 'Oh, that's two podcasts that have good content but are not working for the business. Is there an opportunity? And to me, I linked it to the business that I already have, which is the memberships, you know, and we are behind some of the big ones for like coaches online and looking at what it is that they do, right? And what they do is they do more of what works. And if something doesn't work, they stop doing it. So, You are like, they have the membership. What is their lead generation machine? Right. It's the podcast. Okay. How do they do that? So you reverse engineer, basically I reverse engineer, you know, what, um, people were doing. And then we were like, okay, let's help. Let's create a tool to, to fill that gap for people. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: Because I have clients, you know, that have memberships that have podcasts. And when you ask them what is it bringing to the business, they don't exactly know. They don't stop it. Like they'll keep paying the agency because they don't know if they stop it, if it will do something to the business. But there is no ROI, there is no metric, no KPI that the agency can give them to say, hey, you got 20 leads. From this episode, you know, this month or something like that. And that's something that they felt would be super valuable. That's how the idea came. Everything that we do, like when I come up with a program or a tool, that's our search tool. Um, it's, we're trying to solve a problem for people. That's how we look at it. Speaker A: I love that. What is, what's a simple thing that someone could implement tomorrow that would dramatically improve their results? Speaker B: You mean for a podcaster? Yeah, right. Next episode that you record, think about what do you want people to do at the end. Do you want them to come into your list? Like, are you talking to— are you trying to sell them your coaching program, your course, your software, you know, or your, your physical— something physical, you know? And then reverse engineer, what do they need to hear about you in order to trust you, to understand what you stand for, give them a piece of value, and then identify one resource that you can give them to get them closer to what they want. Yeah, that's it. Just that. Speaker A: Yeah. What would you say to the podcaster right now who is putting in the work and they just feel like nothing is happening? What's your advice to them? Speaker B: I think the first thing is to audit what they're doing. The problem, I mean, not the problem, but the catch with people that are really good at what they're doing is that we are blind to our own things. So things that sound so simple that we would not mention because everybody knows that, maybe this is where you need to start. So you need an outside— I don't know if that's what you do, Brandon, but like, we need an outside view and audit of like, this is who I'm trying to reach out to. This is what I'm talking about. Like, is, is there a gap? Like, is there a connection? Right? Because if you're not getting, or if you're getting downloads, but nobody signs up to your stuff, right? Then that means the content is not It's not landing. Speaking to them, right? So it starts with an audit. Let's sit down and reverse engineer and see what needs to be changed. Speaker A: I love that. How can people work with you? How can they get resourced with you? How can they get their podcast audited? Yeah, sure. Speaker B: So the easiest is to go to podcastleadflow.com/brenden. Let's do that. B-R-A-N-D-E-N. And then there, there will be a tool. That, um, they can sign up for. And, uh, basically they'll answer a couple of information and they'll get an audit sent to them by email. It's unique for every single person. Speaker A: That's amazing. Um, Natalie, this is the part of the show that I get to tell you what I think makes you special. And it's not the systems, it's not the automation, it's not even the strategy. That stuff is amazing. I'm not taken anything from that, but I think what really makes you special is that you understand something a lot of people are missing, that podcasting isn't really about the content, it's the connection. You're helping people recognize that trust is, is the value, and that relationships matter, and that influence is not measured by downloads, it's measured by the transformation. And instead of teaching people how to manipulate attention, you're teaching them how to honor that. And I think the work that you're doing is powerful. Um, I— we very much agree that podcasting is where it is at right now. It is huge. And this, this is the beginning of something really big, I think, with AI surrounding us. And I think you're, you're right at the lead of that, and I love that. To everyone listening, you guys, your voice matters. And it's not because it's loud, but it's because it's yours. And somebody out there needs your story. They need your experience, your perspective. And podcasting isn't just content creation. It is literally relationship creation. And if you're building trust, don't waste it. Use it to serve, use it to lead, use it to create the impact. You got to be courageous and be visible. Um, and please remember that your mess is your message. The thing that you've lived through might be the exact thing that someone else needs to hear. One conversation, you guys— I see it so much on the show— one conversation can change everything. So if this episode speaks to to you. Share it out with someone that you know who needs it. If you guys are ready to stop consuming and start creating, I dare you to come tell me why you're special. Natalie, thank you so much for coming into the hot seat. I think this was amazing. Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. That was a lot of fun.

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