Do I need complex tech to start a membership according to the episode?

No, the episode stresses that you can begin validating and even pre-selling a membership with minimal or no tech, focusing first on audience, problem, and an interest list before choosing platforms.

Why does the episode say people stay in memberships?

Natalie Doremieux argues in the podcast that people stay in memberships primarily because they get results and achieve the outcomes they joined for, not merely for access to content or community.

How does the episode suggest using AI inside memberships?

The episode suggests using AI assistants trained on your program content to answer member questions 24/7 and building AI-powered tools, such as co-creation forms and role-play bots, to help members implement faster and gain confidence.

Can I keep doing one-on-one services while I build a membership?

Yes, the podcast recommends running memberships and one-on-one work in parallel, gradually shifting your time as recurring revenue grows and potentially making private access a premium, members-only benefit.

Who is the ideal audience for the strategies in this episode?

The strategies are aimed at solopreneur service providers such as freelancers, coaches, and consultants who want to escape feast-or-famine cycles and build scalable, recurring revenue through memberships and digital products.

Where can I learn more about Natalie Doremieux’s work mentioned in the episode?

Listeners can learn more about Natalie Doremieux and her membership-focused services at themembershiplab.com, which is referenced in the episode.

Interest List Membership Strategy for Burned-Out Freelancers

Q: What podcast episode is this article based on?

This article is based on Nathalie Guest Shows Episode 113, titled "From Burned-Out Freelancer to Scalable Business Owner: The Interest List Approach" featuring membership strategist Natalie Doremieux.

Q: What is the Interest List Approach to launching a membership?

The Interest List Approach, as described in the episode, is the practice of first gathering a list of people who freely express interest in your membership idea before investing in tech or full content creation, ensuring there is real demand.

From Nathalie Guest Shows / Ep 113: From Burned-Out Freelancer to Scalable Business Owner: The Interest List Approach / Listen to the episode / Originally published March 11, 2026 / Analysis updated May 1, 2026

Source Provenance

This page is a machine-readable analysis of the original episode.

Original episode: Ep 113: From Burned-Out Freelancer to Scalable Business Owner: The Interest List Approach from Nathalie Guest Shows
Original publish date: March 11, 2026
Analysis generated: March 30, 2026
Transcript basis: Full transcript
Original episode link: Open original episode

This page is a machine-readable analysis of the Nathalie Guest Shows episode "Ep 113: From Burned-Out Freelancer to Scalable Business Owner: The Interest List Approach" published on March 11, 2026. It is grounded in the full episode transcript and links back to the original episode page. This article summarizes core insights from Nathalie Guest Shows, Episode 113: "From Burned-Out Freelancer to Scalable Business Owner: The Interest List Approach" featuring membership strategist Natalie Doremieux. In the episode, Doremieux explains how service-based solopreneurs can package their expertise into leveraged memberships, validate ideas with an “interest list,” and use AI to scale client results without burning out. The sections below extract and organize her most actionable strategies so they can be easily cited, searched, and applied.

How can freelancers turn services into scalable memberships without abandoning client work?

In Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113, membership strategist Natalie Doremieux explains that the most successful memberships for freelancers are built on a proven process they already deliver to clients one-on-one. She emphasizes that you should not try to teach in a membership what you have not first mastered in service delivery; instead, you identify the system, framework, or repeatable steps you already use to get clients results and then package that into a leveraged offer. This might include your proposal templates, contracts, delivery workflows, and the specific sequence you follow to take clients from problem to result.

According to the episode, the typical journey is: start with one-on-one work, then perhaps move to small groups, and only then codify what consistently works into a membership, course, or program. The key benefit of this move is that your income is no longer strictly tied to your calendar, because members can consume your process and assets without you being present every hour they are learning. Doremieux notes that this is how you stop “trading time for money” and begin earning even when you are not live with clients.

Crucially, the podcast makes clear that you do not have to abruptly abandon direct client work to launch a membership. Doremieux recommends treating it as a parallel track: determine how much recurring income you want from a membership before you scale down your one-on-one work, and gradually shift your time as the membership revenue grows. She shares a case study of a voice coach who was fully booked one-on-one and introduced a membership to hold her core training, then made one-on-one sessions available only to members. Over several years, this transformed her one-on-one work into an exclusive, premium add-on while the membership provided stable recurring revenue and schedule flexibility.

For freelancers worried about losing income while they “build a product,” the episode’s message is that the transition is incremental: you keep serving clients, extract and formalize your best processes, and slowly reposition one-on-one access as a benefit or upgrade inside a recurring membership.

What is the Interest List Approach, and why does it come before tech decisions?

One of the central frameworks in Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113 is what Natalie Doremieux calls the “interest list” approach to launching a membership. She argues that most solopreneurs make a fundamental mistake by starting with platforms and tools instead of first proving that there is a real audience with a recurring problem they are eager to solve. Her method flips this: before building anything, you create an interest list—a group of people who raise their hand for free to say they are interested in your idea, without yet knowing the exact format, pricing, or platform.

In the episode, Doremieux is explicit that if you cannot get people to join a free interest list, you should not move forward with building a membership. Her reasoning is straightforward: if potential members are not willing to signal interest at zero cost, the likelihood that they will later pay is low. The interest list becomes a low-risk test of your ability to attract and gather the specific audience you want to help. She notes that this is often the hardest part for service providers, because they are used to working one-on-one and suddenly must wear a “marketing and lead generation” hat to build an audience at scale.

The podcast sets out three core questions that must be answered before any tech decisions: who exactly do you want to help, what recurring problem are you going to solve, and do you genuinely like this audience enough to build a long-term community around them? Doremieux insists that the problem must be something people already feel and are actively seeking a solution for, such as saving time, making more money, reducing stress, or achieving a concrete skill. Only when you have clarity on audience and problem—and have proven interest by collecting hand-raisers—do you worry about platforms, plugins, or software.

Doremieux also stresses that an interest list is not about pitching a content dump; it is about promising a clear outcome. Many failed memberships, she explains in the episode, are built around the idea “here is my expertise, come consume it,” which overwhelms people and doesn’t speak to a specific need. The interest list forces you to articulate a focused promise that resonates, and it gives you early feedback from real people before you invest time and money in full-scale development.

How do you design a membership that solves a recurring problem instead of dumping content?

In the podcast episode, Natalie Doremieux repeatedly warns against treating a membership as a warehouse for your expertise. She explains that many experts assume that because they have a lot of knowledge, a membership should simply be a library of content, but this model tends to overwhelm members and fails to keep them engaged. Instead, she argues that high-retention memberships are built around solving a well-defined recurring problem with a clear roadmap, not around the creator’s desire to publish everything they know.

From the episode’s perspective, an effective membership starts with a sharp problem statement: for whom is this membership, and what ongoing problem are they experiencing that you can reliably help them solve? Doremieux suggests that the problem definition should guide everything else—from your sales messaging to your curriculum structure and the type of support you offer. She notes that when members join, they are typically looking for an accelerator: they are either stuck and don’t know what to do, or they have a rough idea but lack tested resources, shortcuts, and templates to move faster.

The podcast emphasizes that people need a roadmap more than they need access to “all the things.” In practical terms, this means organizing your material into stages, milestones, or a framework that acknowledges where members are starting and where they want to go. Doremieux highlights that members also need to feel you understand their situation, which is why context, pacing, and guidance matter as much as the lessons themselves. A well-structured membership helps members focus on the next right step, not every possible resource.

Another nuance from the episode is that your membership does not have to serve the same audience you currently serve in client work; it can also be aimed at peers a few steps behind you. Doremieux notes that once you have developed expertise, you can choose whether to package it for your existing clients in a different format or to support newer professionals entering your field. Regardless of audience choice, the anchor is the same: tie the membership to a specific, recurring problem and design your content, community, and support around consistently solving that problem, not showcasing the full breadth of your experience.

How can freelancers build recurring revenue and retention by extending the client journey?

A major theme in Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113 is that retention and recurring revenue start with overdelivering on your initial projects and then proactively designing what comes next for clients. Doremieux explains that if you want clients to stay and pay you repeatedly, the first requirement is to fully deliver, and ideally overdeliver, on the original promise of your service. This builds trust and makes clients open to additional support instead of viewing you as a one-off vendor.

The episode highlights that solving one problem often creates new, higher-level problems or opportunities. Doremieux encourages freelancers to look at what logically comes after the initial project and ask, “What recurring service or support would genuinely help this client now?” This could be quarterly reviews, ongoing optimization, maintenance, or strategic check-ins, depending on your field. Even if the cadence is as light as once a quarter or every six months, establishing a recurring layer turns projects into a longer-term relationship.

In her own business experience shared on the podcast, Doremieux learned that many of her web clients did not realize the full range of services she offered until she explicitly mentioned them. She uses this as a reminder that freelancers must communicate the additional ways they can help rather than assuming clients will infer it. Recurring offers can also signal to clients that you are “here for the long run,” addressing a common fear that a freelancer will complete the project, disappear, and leave them without support.

Within the membership model context, Doremieux’s story of the voice coach demonstrates an advanced form of retention and recurring revenue. By making one-on-one sessions available only to members and announcing limited spots inside the community, the coach transformed individualized work into a scarce, premium upsell. This strategy both encourages ongoing membership (to retain access) and allows the freelancer to dial one-on-one work up or down like a faucet, preserving personal bandwidth while maintaining income.

How does AI improve member experience and retention in online programs?

Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113 provides detailed examples of how integrating AI into memberships and online programs can dramatically improve member experience and retention. Doremieux states plainly that there is “one thing and one thing only” that keeps people in a membership long term: they get results. While community can be pleasant, she argues that members ultimately stay if they achieve the outcomes they joined for and leave if they do not. AI, in her view, is a powerful way to help members move faster toward those results without requiring the creator to add more live calls or hire a large team.

The episode describes a model where an AI assistant is embedded within a membership platform and trained on past coaching calls, course content, and program documentation. This AI coach can answer member questions 24/7 as they move through lessons, so they do not have to wait for the next Q&A session or post in a forum. Doremieux emphasizes the psychological benefits of this setup: the AI is always available, non-judgmental, and infinitely patient, allowing members to ask the same question multiple times as they work through confusion.

Beyond Q&A, the podcast outlines AI-powered tools that turn passive learning into active implementation. For example, if you are teaching members how to create a LinkedIn profile, you can pair a training video with an AI-driven form that asks strategic questions and co-creates a draft profile with the user. Doremieux calls this “learning, doing, learning, doing” and argues that AI enables this kind of interactive, co-creative experience at scale. She also describes using AI role-play bots to help members practice sales calls, with different difficulty levels ranging from easy to tough conversations; this structured practice builds confidence without requiring a human coach on every call.

To illustrate the scale impact, Doremieux cites a concrete program where 580 students generated 5,000 AI conversations in the first week after implementation. She points out that those 5,000 questions would never have been asked live and that by answering them instantly, the AI dramatically accelerated member progress and maintained momentum. In her own work at The Membership Lab, her team has even built WordPress-based equivalents of “custom GPTs” so that these AI assistants run securely inside clients’ sites. The episode concludes that AI in e-learning and membership environments will become mainstream because it directly supports the only metric that matters for retention: members achieving real results.

How should freelancers think about AI: threat or amplifier?

In the conversation on AI, Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113 addresses a tension that many freelancers feel: whether to fear AI as competition or embrace it as a tool. When asked for a single word to describe AI, Natalie Doremieux chooses “amplifier,” and this framing underpins her advice. She argues that resisting AI and insisting “I can do a better job without it” is a losing strategy over time, especially in sectors like translation that are already being reshaped by AI tools.

The episode proposes that freelancers experiment actively with AI to improve efficiency and outcomes rather than trying to convince clients that AI is inherently inferior. Doremieux suggests that the better question is, “How can I leverage AI so I can work faster and deliver better results for my clients?” This stance aligns with the host’s own coaching framework, where the “E” stands for using AI for efficiency. By integrating AI thoughtfully, freelancers can position themselves as professionals who understand both their craft and the tools that enhance it.

Doremieux also underscores that AI’s quality is dependent on the quality of the input and instructions, reinforcing the idea that expert judgment is still critical. She notes in the podcast that you should not expect AI to “come with the good stuff” if you feed it bad prompts or poor source material; the value comes when experts use AI as a multiplier for their proven processes, content, and frameworks. This is the same logic she applies when embedding AI into memberships: AI becomes a way to scale access to your best thinking, not a replacement for it.

Ultimately, the episode encourages freelancers to view AI as part of future-proofing their careers and business models. Whether through AI-augmented services, AI-driven membership tools, or AI-assisted marketing, those who experiment and adapt can differentiate themselves, while those who stay in fear risk becoming less competitive as client expectations evolve.

When is the right time for a freelancer to start exploring products and memberships?

Timing is a practical concern for many service providers, and Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113 provides clear guidance on when to begin exploring leveraged offers like memberships, courses, or digital products. Doremieux’s main warning is not to wait until you are completely burned out from client work before considering a membership; by that point, your energy and mindset may be too depleted to design a thoughtful, strategic product. Instead, she recommends starting the exploration when you still have some bandwidth and curiosity, so that you can think clearly about what you truly want to build.

In the episode, she acknowledges that listeners are at very different stages: some are actively looking to transition, while others are simply curious. For both groups, her first step is not “build a membership,” but “get clear on what you really want your business and life to look like in five years.” This includes identifying who you want to help in the future—your existing clients in a different format, or peers who are newer to your field and could benefit from your accumulated experience.

Doremieux encourages listeners to start by talking to people who have already made the transition from pure services to a mix of services and products, as this helps demystify the process and surface realistic options. She frames the exploration itself as an experiment, echoing her broader business advice from the episode: everything is an experiment, and waiting to feel perfectly ready means you may never begin. The cost of experimentation—such as building an interest list or testing a small pilot offer—is usually far lower than the cost of remaining stuck indefinitely in an unsustainable work pattern.

The podcast also makes clear that early moves can be small: refining your framework, documenting your process, or drafting a simple lead magnet are all preliminary steps towards a full membership. These low-stakes experiments help you validate demand and build initial assets, so that when you decide to launch a membership formally, you are not starting from zero.

Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113 with Natalie Doremieux offers a practical roadmap for freelancers who want to move from burned-out service provider to scalable business owner using memberships, the Interest List Approach, and AI-assisted delivery. By validating your idea before touching tech, structuring your expertise around a recurring problem, and using AI to drive member results and retention, you can gradually build recurring revenue without abruptly abandoning client work. To hear the full context, stories, and examples behind these strategies, listen to the complete episode at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/eczr3urs.

Key Takeaways

In Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113, Natalie Doremieux explains that the most successful memberships are built on a proven client process or framework you have already delivered repeatedly in one-on-one work, not on untested ideas.
The episode introduces the Interest List Approach, where you validate membership demand by collecting a free list of hand-raisers before choosing any platform or investing in tech.
Doremieux emphasizes in the podcast that members stay in a membership for one core reason—they get tangible results—not just for community or access to content.
In a case study shared on the episode, a voice coach gradually transitioned from fully booked one-on-one work to a scalable model by making private sessions available only to paying members inside her membership.
The podcast describes how embedding an AI assistant into a program with 580 students resulted in 5,000 AI conversations in the first week, answering questions that would never have surfaced in live Q&A and significantly accelerating member progress.
Throughout Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113, Doremieux frames AI as an amplifier that allows service providers to scale support, create interactive tools, and improve member outcomes without hiring a large team.
The episode advises freelancers not to wait until they are completely burned out before exploring memberships and products, but instead to start experimenting early while they still have the bandwidth to design strategically.

Key Definitions

Interest List Approach: Interest List Approach is a membership validation method described by Natalie Doremieux in Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113, where you first gather a free list of people who raise their hand for your proposed offer before building any tech or content.
Membership Model for Freelancers: Membership Model for Freelancers is a business structure in which a freelancer packages their proven processes and expertise into a recurring subscription program that delivers ongoing value and revenue beyond billable hours.
Member Experience: Member Experience is the end-to-end journey and perceived value a person receives inside a membership, including content, support, tools, and results, which Natalie Doremieux identifies in the podcast as the key driver of retention.
AI Assistant in Memberships: AI Assistant in Memberships is an embedded, always-on conversational tool trained on program content and past coaching that answers member questions and guides implementation, as described in Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113.
One-to-One to One-to-Many Transition: One-to-One to One-to-Many Transition is the shift from delivering services individually to clients to serving groups through memberships, courses, or programs built on the same underlying framework, a path outlined in the podcast episode.

Claims & Evidence

Claim

Members stay in a membership primarily when they achieve results, not just because of community.

Evidence

In the episode, Natalie Doremieux states that people may say they stay for community but calls that "BS" and asserts that members come for a result and leave if they do not get it, making outcomes the true retention driver.

Source: Episode transcript — guest interview - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Ep 113: From Burned-Out Freelancer to Scalable Business Owner: The Interest List Approach" / published March 11, 2026 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Ep 113: From Burned-Out Freelancer to Scalable Business Owner: The Interest List Approach" / published March 11, 2026 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Ep 113: From Burned-Out Freelancer to Scalable Business Owner: The Interest List Approach" / published March 11, 2026 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Ep 113: From Burned-Out Freelancer to Scalable Business Owner: The Interest List Approach" / published March 11, 2026 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Ep 113: From Burned-Out Freelancer to Scalable Business Owner: The Interest List Approach" / published March 11, 2026

Claim

You should not proceed with building a membership if you cannot first build an interest list of people who raise their hand for free.

Evidence

Doremieux explains in the podcast that if you cannot get people to join a free interest list, you should "not go any further," because it is unrealistic to expect payment later if they will not signal interest at zero cost.

Claim

Embedding AI into a program can handle thousands of member questions that would never surface in live Q&A.

Evidence

The episode shares a concrete example where a program with 580 students generated 5,000 AI conversations in one week with an AI assistant named Daisy, representing 5,000 questions that would not have been asked in live sessions.

Claim

Freelancers can use a membership to make one-on-one access an exclusive, controllable premium offer.

Evidence

Doremieux describes a voice coach who moved core training into a membership and required clients to be members to book one-on-one sessions, then announced limited one-on-one spots inside the community, allowing her to turn this work on or off like a faucet.

Claim

Treating business initiatives as experiments helps overcome paralysis and adapt to changes like AI.

Evidence

When asked for her best business advice, Doremieux says "everything is an experiment" and warns that waiting to feel ready means never starting, urging freelancers to try using AI and new models rather than staying in fear.

Key Questions Answered

How can a burned-out freelancer start a membership without giving up their current clients?

Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113 explains that burned-out freelancers do not have to abandon client work to start a membership; instead, they should gradually codify the processes that already get results for their one-on-one clients into a structured program while still serving those clients. As recurring revenue from the membership grows, they can slowly scale down direct work or reposition it as a premium, members-only upgrade, as demonstrated by a voice coach who moved her core training into a membership and limited one-on-one access to members. This parallel approach protects income while building a scalable, less time-bound business model.

What is an interest list and why is it important before launching a membership?

In Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113, Natalie Doremieux defines an interest list as a group of people who freely raise their hand to say they are interested in your proposed membership idea before you decide on price, format, or platform. She argues that if you cannot persuade people to join a free interest list, you should not move forward with building the membership, because it signals a lack of real demand and questions your ability to market the offer later. The interest list is therefore a low-risk validation step that ensures there is an audience with a recurring problem you can solve before you invest in tech or heavy content creation.

How do I design a membership that solves a recurring problem instead of overwhelming members with content?

According to Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113, the foundation of a successful membership is a clearly defined recurring problem for a specific audience, not a large library of content. Natalie Doremieux advises structuring your material into a roadmap or framework that takes members from their current situation to a desired result, and focusing each component on accelerating that journey with shortcuts, templates, and tested processes. She warns that “here is all my expertise, come consume it” memberships tend to overwhelm people, whereas problem-focused, step-by-step designs keep members moving forward and more likely to stay.

How can AI tools improve retention and results in a membership site?

The podcast episode describes several ways AI can significantly enhance retention and results in memberships by making support more immediate and learning more interactive. Natalie Doremieux recommends embedding an AI assistant trained on your course content and past coaching so members can get 24/7 answers without waiting for live calls, and using AI-driven tools that co-create deliverables (like LinkedIn profiles) with users or simulate role-play scenarios (like sales calls) for practice. In one program she cites, 580 students generated 5,000 AI conversations in a week, showing how AI can address thousands of questions that would never surface in live Q&A and thereby keep members progressing and engaged.

Why does Natalie Doremieux say members stay in a membership?

In Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113, Natalie Doremieux asserts that members ultimately stay in a membership because they get results, not primarily because of community or volume of content. She notes that while people may claim they are there for the community, they came in seeking a specific outcome, and if they do not achieve it, they will eventually leave regardless of social features. This focus on results leads her to prioritize member experience, implementation tools, and AI support that directly move people toward tangible wins.

How can a freelancer extend client relationships into recurring revenue offers?

The episode recommends that freelancers first overdeliver on the initial project and then proactively design what logically comes next for the client, such as quarterly reviews, ongoing optimization, or maintenance. Natalie Doremieux explains that solving one problem often creates new ones or new opportunities, and that recurring services or memberships that address these follow-on needs both help the client and create stable revenue. She also emphasizes communicating additional services clearly, since many clients will not realize what else you offer unless you spell it out.

How should freelancers think about AI: as a threat or as an amplifier?

In Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113, when asked for one word to describe AI, Natalie Doremieux chooses “amplifier,” reflecting her belief that AI can multiply the impact of a freelancer’s expertise rather than simply replace it. She argues that resisting AI and insisting you can always do better manually is a losing strategy, especially in fields already being reshaped by automation, and she urges freelancers to experiment with AI to become faster and deliver better results. Her stance is that AI works best when experts feed it high-quality instructions and content, using it to extend their capabilities instead of viewing it as an adversary.

When is the right time for a service provider to start building a membership or product?

The podcast advises against waiting until you are completely burned out from client work before exploring memberships or digital products, because that state makes strategic planning difficult. Instead, Natalie Doremieux suggests beginning the exploration while you still have energy and curiosity, starting with clarifying your five-year vision, identifying who you want to help, and running small experiments like building an interest list or documenting your framework. By treating the process as an experiment rather than an all-or-nothing leap, you can gradually develop leveraged offers without destabilizing your existing income.

What is the best business advice shared in Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113?

In Ep 113, Natalie Doremieux shares that her best business advice is to treat everything as an experiment and stop waiting to feel fully ready before taking action. She observes that many people stay stuck because they fear something may not work or they might not like it, but in reality, the only way to know is to try and, if necessary, fail quickly and adjust. This experimental mindset applies both to adopting AI and to launching new offers like memberships, where small tests can prevent large, costly missteps.

How did a voice coach transition from fully booked one-on-one work to a scalable membership model?

Nathalie Guest Shows Ep 113 recounts the story of a voice coach who was fully booked and turning away clients, prompting her to create a membership that housed all the core training she repeated with everyone. Over several years, she shifted her model so that one-on-one sessions were available only to paying members, effectively making private access a member-exclusive benefit. This allowed her to maintain recurring income from membership fees, choose how many one-on-one clients to take at any time, and treat private work as a flexible, premium add-on rather than her primary income source.

Full Episode Transcript

Speaker A: Natalie Doremuir has spent 17 years and over 300 custom membership builds helping coaches, course creators and community builders create recurring revenue without the tech headaches. She works with mission driven solopreneurs who are stuck in feast or famine launch cycles, sitting on great content but lacking a structured platform to deliver it, or running memberships that struggle with engagement and churn. What sets her apart is her approach. Most people treat their membership as a standalone asset. Natalie helps them see how it fits into their entire business ecosystem, then builds it fast using AI powered tools, gamification and smart automation to keep members engaged, getting results and staying long term. Her team at the membership lab are WordPress specialists and instructional designers, but they lead as strategic partners first. Speaker B: You can find [email protected] and welcome to Freelancer Training on how to find more direct Clients, a podcast hosted by myself, Jason Willis Lee. This is the show that makes digital marketing easier and more fun, using the perfect combination and just the right dose of business strategy and tech. I'm your host, Jason Willis Lee. I'm a medical translator, digital marketing enthusiast and today I'm very thrilled to bring along my special guest. Her name is Natalie Doremieux. Natalie brings a unique perspective. I know I pronounced that right because French is one of my working languages. Doremieux. We're going to do the conversation in English, otherwise I'm going to suffer. And Natalie has a very unique perspective to our discussion today. Natalie, welcome to freelancer training. How are you today? Speaker C: Yeah, I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me, Jason. And, and welcome on the pronunciation. It's usually expected to be butchered. Speaker B: So I, I'm very happy to have you. Thank you for, for coming on. Could you just tell us a little bit about your personal, your business journey? How did you get to where you are now? I know you're a solopreneur. You work with business owners, service providers. How. Just tell me a little about how you got to where you're. What you're doing exactly now. Speaker C: Yeah, so I've been a business owner for 20 years. I actually, we run a family business, so it's me and my husband. So not exactly solo. And basically the way it works is my background is in tech. I was a software engineer. He was as well. We met in college. We moved to the US to leave the American dream and then we stayed there for 10 years in the Silicon Valley and we moved back to France in 2005 to start our own business and that's really where it all started. And us software engineer, never worked in France. And starting a business, Speaker B: that's amazing. Let's talk about. I know you deal with membership models and my audience are service providers. They're mainly solopreneurs, so small business, possibly one assistant, a virtual assistant. So let's talk about memberships. I know that you run a membership or you teach people how to do memberships. So selling time for money has a ceiling. And one of the things that I discovered when I went into products, I was looking to create leverageable business assets like training, like using a virtual assistant to get leverage in my business. Like a little book, just getting little bits of assets together that could, I could use over and over again. How do, how do memberships help freelancers scale up? Because freelancers, they hit a ceiling. There's only so many hours in the day that you can sell. How do you help people like me or like my audience package their expertise into a membership and create recurring revenue that actually scales beyond billable hours? How does that, how can we do that without pivoting away from direct line work? Speaker C: Yeah, so this is actually the journey that a lot of people have when they start a membership, is that they really start by very often working one on one, then they might switch to group. If you're a service provider like I was, I was building websites like WordPress sites, you know, that's what we were doing at the beginning, basically your trading time for money. But what we saw in the membership model, and that's what we've been helping people with for the last 10 years at least, is a way to package your expertise so that you can grow a business, make an income without it, be tied to your calendar, you know, and that's the key now for this to work. And I think that's kind of like where your question was going is that you cannot teach something that you have not mastered. The memberships that work the best are the ones where you have a proven system in place, process, framework, whatever that is that you see you've been replicating through your clients and then you want to share that with others. That is the typical transition from a service provider to a membership. It's like, I've been doing this for years. I've helped people, I have a process, I have figured out how to maybe create my proposal, my contracts, you know, like all of these, the follow up and all of the delivery, all of that. And now I can help people do that. And when you create a membership or an online course or a program that's leveraged. Speaker B: Right. Speaker C: That's where you can really start to basically grow a business that makes you money without you being there, you know, every single time. Where you really stop trading time for money. Speaker B: Yeah. So you can make money theoretically, when you're sleeping, you don't have to physically be there to get the revenue. Right? Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker B: Okay, so let's say we already have the content and we just need the structure. Most freelance service providers, like myself, and I'm a medical translator, as you know, I work from Spanish and French to English. They accumulate years and years of specialist knowledge, but it's very difficult to monetize that knowledge systematically. So how, how do you. Exactly. How can you turn that into a structured membership platform without getting buried in the tech decisions? Because you said you were a former software developer. Most of us don't. Don't program software or we don't know much about that. How can we. How can we do a membership without getting bogged down in the tech and the software and all these technical decisions? Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's where a lot of people get stuck is they think, tech, what do I need to use? And it's really not about that. The most important thing is to figure out what is your membership idea, who it is that you want to help, and what recurring problem are you trying to solve. Right. And the more specific, the more specialized you can be, the better, because the clearer your message is going to be. Okay, so what I tell people when they want to start a membership, it's not about the tool, it's not about the tech. It's about figuring out who is that audience that you want to help. Do you like them? Do you want to create a community? I mean, it's a real question. This is something that you see yourself doing in five years. Second, is there a problem that you've identified that you can help them with? So you can help them do things faster, save time, you can then help them make more money, you can help them be happier, you can help them be less stressed, whatever that is. You got to figure that out. And it's from that that you get your membership idea. It's got to be a problem that people have. They are looking for a solution and you'd love to help people with that. That sounds super simple, but at the core, this is what it is. A lot of people start memberships just because they have the expertise, but they don't really want to help these people. And they think that a membership is like putting a whole bunch of content like, here is my expertise for you to Consume doesn't work that way. People get overwhelmed. People need more than that. They, they need a roadmap. They need to see that you understand where they're at. And very often when they join a membership, they are looking for an accelerator. They're either stuck, don't know what to do, or they kind of like, no, but they need resources, shortcuts, things that have been tried before. Speaker B: Right. Speaker C: And that's really the key. And you have a whole. What I truly believe is that you can launch a membership without any tech. The first thing that you need to do is figure out that audience and you create what I call an interest list. It's a list of people that raise their hand for free and say, I'm interested. They don't know yet exactly the format. They don't know how much it's going to cost. They don't know on what platform. But there is an interest because if you can't do that, don't go any further. How do you expect people to pay later if you're not able to help them? Raise their hand for free? Right. So that's the first thing is your ability to build an audience. And that's probably, I think, one of the most challenging parts for a service provider because that's not what we do. We work very one on one, personalized and suddenly we, we're going after a totally different business model where we have to wear the marketing hat, the lead generation and building an audience and working on our marketing. So you know, you were asking earlier, like, how do you do this and not basically lose the business? Right. The key is really you have to do it like at the same time, right. So you have to identify how, how much of an income do you want to make from this membership or other model before you want to let go of the one on one. Right now there is a format that I've worked with several clients on this because the issue I want to say is very similar for a coach that works one on one. They're like, I do one on one work. I don't need to. I can't work with that many people. But gosh, I wish I could, I could scale this, right? And one way I'm thinking particularly on a, she's a voice coach, so she was teaching, you know, how to use your voice for singers and people, you know, like in bands and things like that. And she was doing one on one and she was of a book, like she was saying no to people. So I know it's not the situation. I wish it was for everybody. But in her situation, she had to find another way. And what she did is she started a membership where she started to take core trainings. You know, the things that she repeats all the time to everybody. And she put that in a membership. And then she told people, if you want to work with me one on one, you have to be a member. It's a member only thing. So it took like several years to transition to that. Right. But she really got them to really buy into the idea just because it was still solving their problem. They still had some level of access to her. Right. She was getting that recurring income because they were a member. And then she basically could choose how many people she wanted to work with every month. To her, because she became a mom was really the ultimate freedom. It's like choosing, it's like a faucet. I turn in on and off, do I want one on one or not? And every time she had a spot or she wanted to, she just had to say it in the community, hey, I have a spot open, you know, for like three sessions next month if anyone is interested. So a one on one became an exclusive service for members. So I know not everybody is there, you know, like having too many clients. But the general idea is this, is that you don't have to give up one on one in order to start, you know, creating that recurring income with a membership. Speaker B: Work with me. Speaker A: Are you ready to build your direct client pipeline with a complete authority framework? I work with specialized medical and technical translators to build four core business assets. An authority position website, an optimized LinkedIn business profile, two lead magnets that are niche specific, and an email, database and newsletter system to nurture warm leads. These assets work together in combination to attract 1500-€5000 specialist projects from pharma and biotech companies. Learn more about one to one [email protected] HowToFindTranslationClients. That's entrepreneurialtranslator.com HowToFindTranslationclients with a hyphen in between. Speaker B: Okay, let's talk about client retention and constant client acquisition. Most freelancers get very tired chasing new clients. Could you outline an approach or your methodology using automation, using AI tools and show us how a membership model can actually keep an audience engaged long term, which reduces the pressure to constantly fill the pipeline. Because I'm all about know recovering recurring revenue and retention of clients, we shouldn't have to be constantly looking for new clients. Could you, could you talk a little Bit about that. How can service providers increase their retention without getting exhausted chasing new work all the time? Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. So, and that's one thing that we are doing really well right now. We were not before, but now we are doing really well with retention. I think it has several pieces. The first piece is that if you want retention, you have to make sure that you've delivered, you've over delivered on what was the project. That's what I strive to do, is to over deliver now. It's also understanding that very often when you solve a problem with someone, it might introduce a new problem. So it's like being proactive about, okay, now that they have this, is there something that I can do that can create recurring revenue for me that would help them? Right. Either again, save time, make more money, whatever that is. Right. So it's going to be specific, you know, for different clients, for the type of service that you have. But it's like being able to look into, you know, like what is one new service that would be recurring even if it's once a quarter. Right. Or something like that, Like a review. I know it. Or something like that. Because it's not only going to show that you're not going anywhere, which is, you know, when you get hired, this is one of the things people are like, are they going to take my money, do the thing and then leave? And I cannot ask questions. So it's really saying, you know, I'm here for the long run. You know, I tell my clients, they are lifetime clients. So it's really being proactive about that. You know, what are some extra services where I could come in every once a quarter, once a month or every six months. Speaker B: Right. Speaker C: And that's how you start looking into what else you can do. Because I don't know about you, but when I was doing like websites and things like that, people were telling me, oh, I didn't know you were doing that. You know, like when you talk about things, I didn't know you could do that. So we have to talk about the things, the other things that we can do. Speaker B: Okay, let's turn to a couple of quick fire questions. So just sort of answer the first thing that comes to your mind. What is the best, best business advice you've ever received, Natalie? Best business advice you've received or maybe you've given someone else, like a mentee or received from a mentor, somebody you look up to. Speaker A: Yep. Speaker C: Everything is an experiment. If you're waiting to be ready, then you will never be ready. Right. So. Speaker B: Right. Speaker C: You have to try things, just try things. And if you're going to fail, it's better that you fail quickly. I know everybody says that, but that's the reality. A lot of people get stuck and because they don't know if it will work, they don't know if they will like it, the best way to find out is to go through it. So everything's an experiment and things change, right? You see, with AI, I mean, I know you guys are very affected, you know, in the translation industry. So do you stay in fear and like, no, I'm so good. Like, I'm going to try to keep my client and tell them AI is not good, or are you going to embrace it and say, okay, let's try an experiment. Can I do something with AI? Can I leverage it so that I can be faster and then I become someone that is actually using AI to help my clients have better results, whatever that is? Or am I like, no, I can do a better job? And that. You're going to lose at this. You're going to lose the battle if you do that. That's my opinion. Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I have a framework I use for coaching. The E of the bridge framework is actually use AI for efficiency. Be efficiency over. Yeah, everyone, you can go to entrepreneurialtranslator.com and look for ways and read the blog and listen to podcast episodes on that. So, talking about AI, Natalie, what is one word you would use to describe AI? What is the first word that comes to mind when you think about AI? It's obviously affected all of us, my industry, yours as well. What is one word that comes to Speaker C: mind when you think about Amplifier. Speaker B: Amplifier. I like that. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, absolutely. It's a good. It's like a megaphone, right? One piece of content and use AI to just amplify it all over the place. Speaker C: Exactly. Give it bad stuff or expect it to come with the good stuff. No, it won't. But give it good stuff, good instructions, then it can really be really powerful. Speaker B: So do you actually build an AI tool into a membership platform? Can you give me an example of how a service provider can support their clients or members? Let's say they do a membership at scale without hiring like five people on their team? Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. So one of the things that we do in memberships, we are big into member experience because that's what creates retention. There is one thing and one thing only that will make people stay in a membership in the retention. It's if they get results, that's what they came for. People say they stay for the community, blah, blah, blah. I think that's bs that doesn't work anymore. People stay, they get results, they come for something, they get in, they stay, they don't, they leave. End of the story. So then what we do is we use AI to help people get results faster, right? So you can have an AI assistant that is loaded with some content. It can be loaded with fast coaching calls so that they can get an answer right away. They can be loaded with a course, right, that has some training. And as they go through the training, if they have a question, they don't have to wait for the next Q and a call or post in the community. It's right there. 27, no judgment and very patient. Okay? So you can ask the same questions 10 times, right? And then we use AI where we create tools to help people do the work. So for example, if you, if you were teaching people how to create their profile on LinkedIn, right? You can have a video, you can tell them it's very passive, they are consuming the video. What you have a tool before below that says, okay, now let's work on your profile. Basically, D is a tool that is going to ask you questions to help you come up with your profile. Now it's like co creating with you. It's interactive. I really believe in the learning, doing, learning, doing. And that's what AI allows us to do. Another AI tool, for example, that we've implemented is role play. If you're a service provider and you need to do sales calls, you have to do sales call. Well, you can have an AI and you can role play with them and you can have like we had like three different levels, like the easy conversation, the conversation and the tough conversation. And you just role play. What does it do? It's practice. It builds your confidence, right? And these all become tools that your members are going to get addicted to because they are all tools that help them get the job done, get the result at the end, right? So it's all these tools. So it's really about. It's not like let's put AI, let's load all our program and get it done. It's like, where do people get stuck, right? If they have to wait for the next Q and A call or if you're like, I don't want to hire another person, another coach, or, or I don't want to add another call during the week, but I can have an AI that's 24, 7. When we did it, the one that last, that we did program 580 students within one week, 5,000 conversations with Daisy. That means 5,000 questions that would have not been asked in a Q and A. Now, do you think people are going faster through the program? I bet they are. And it builds their confidence. That's where you keep the momentum. I think that AI inside programs, it's going to be everywhere right now. It's still. The tools are not exactly there. We have something for WordPress because that's. We are WordPress people. So that's what we've built with kind of like done the equivalent of a custom GPT inside WordPress so it's all protected and. But this is going to become mainstream AI into E learning because it just makes so much sense. Speaker B: Natalie, what's the worst investment you've ever made? Is there an experience you've had that drained time or drained money from your resources? And what, what lesson did you learn from that? To teach. Teach other people not to do. Speaker C: Yeah, so there are several, but there was one particularly, that was 15K. And basically I hired a service to help me grow on LinkedIn. Big name, big name, great sales guy, obviously sold me the program. Speaker A: And Speaker C: do you want to know what happened? Or like, do you, like. I don't know how you. Speaker B: Yeah, tell me the anchor. Of course I want to know what happened. Speaker C: I can tell you the mistake because I cannot. Like, it's basically, I went into a program where he did something for himself and it worked. And therefore he's like, it worked for me. It will work for everybody. Well, guess why it doesn't work that way. Right. So it's really not doing my homework about, you know, like, what results I could expect. You know, it's like, it's also, you know, like, basically just a bad experience. Right. So. And it's part of learning. You know, I have several. I'm actually working right now on an article for LinkedIn and it's for one where I had a coach one time, that was eight years ago, she said to a group of people we were in San Diego, she said, I should charge more for this because you guys are not doing the work. This is the worst thing you can tell a student, right? Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker C: And I quit that program. I quit that program. So I guess that was a bad one. Speaker B: Okay, so we talk. We talked about quite a few things. What is one? So we're talking to service providers who may want to get into products, which we talked about membership model as a product. A book is a product, a course is a product, an ebook is a product, a PDF Downloadable is a product. What is one thing that you would sort of say is the main takeaway from today's conversation? What would you like to be the main sort of notable nugget that someone can take away from today? Speaker C: I think that to me, the main takeaway would be because people are going to be at very different stages, Ages. Right. Some people are like actively looking, some people are curious. Speaker B: Sure. Speaker C: And I think that one, you don't want to wait until you're completely burned out with your service before you look into this because you're not going to get into the right mindset. Two, is being open and start talking to people that have done it before you. Right. And looking at what your options are. Right. Just starting to look into what that would look like and look at what who would you want to help? Is it your existing clients in the different capacity or is it something else? Is it your peers? Because now you've got that expertise and then you have people that are completely new so you knew things they don't know. You have an opportunity to help them. But at the core, it is what it is that you really, really want. Where do you see yourself in like five years? What would make you feel like, oh, yes, I've really grown the business. Speaker B: Natalie, where can my listeners connect with you or learn more about your work? Is there a website? Is it LinkedIn? Where's the best place to connect with you? Speaker C: They can find me on LinkedIn. They can also go to themembershiplab.com Jason and there will be a tool there. It's an AI tool that basically can help them figure out what is their next step and it's going to be based on our episode. So it takes the episode and it's going to come up with a freebie for them. Speaker B: Great. That's themembershiplab.com Jason. Speaker C: Jason. Speaker B: Yeah, thank you so much. We'll make sure those links are in the show notes. All right, let's wrap it up for today's episode of Freelancer training on how to find more direct clients. Stay tuned for more engaging discussions on the ever involving landscape of language and marketing. Until next time. Remember what I always what I always try and say, stay in your game and future proof your career in the AI era. Bye for now for me and thank you once again to my special guest, Nathalie Doremier. See you next time. Speaker D: Here's a fun fact about Jason. Jason is a big back to the future fan. Thanks for tuning in. Tuning in to the how to find more direct clients than you can poke a stick at podcast. We'll be back soon. In the meantime, why not head over to www.EnturialTranslator.com to access all our tools and resources to monetize and future proof your freelance translation business. And don't forget to hit the plus button in Apple Podcasts or itunes or subscribe in Spotify to be notified when new episodes for regular tips and insights, business strategy or marketing techniques straight to your inbox, please sign up at www.EnturialTranslator.com.