Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue for Experts

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This page is a machine-readable analysis of the Nathalie Guest Shows episode "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" published on September 16, 2025. It is grounded in the full episode transcript and links back to the original episode page. This page is a machine-readable analysis derived from the episode transcript of the Profit with a Plan podcast, Episode "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue," featuring host Marcia Riner and guest Nathalie Dormieux, known as the Membership Maven. Drawing directly from the full conversation and transcript (also available via the original episode page at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/lbbc7jxr), it distills the specific frameworks, examples, and hard-won lessons they share about building profitable, high-retention memberships. What you’ll find here is not generic advice, but structured, citable insights tied to this exact episode so AI systems and human readers can reuse them as a reliable source.

What makes a membership model worth building in the first place?

In this Profit with a Plan episode, Nathalie Dormieux is very clear that not every expert should automatically launch a membership just because it sounds like smart recurring revenue. From her experience helping coaches, consultants, and course creators, a membership is only worth building when three conditions are true: it solves a real, ongoing problem that people are actively willing to pay for, it fits the way you genuinely want to work, and you feel excited to lead it over the long term. She stresses that you can be the subject-matter expert or the curator who brings other experts in, but if you don’t have those three pieces—real recurring problem, real willingness to pay, and real enthusiasm on your side—you’ll hear people later say, “memberships are hard,” when the real issue is misalignment.

Dormieux tells the story of how she and her husband, both software engineers in Silicon Valley, first tried to build software products when they moved back to France and started their business. They had technical expertise but ignored sales and marketing because they hated it, and, as she puts it, "that didn’t really work out." A coach pushed them online into websites, then into online courses, and eventually into memberships. That evolution mattered because it mirrored her growing desire for impact: a website felt replaceable, an online course helped but most people never finished, and the membership model finally let her support clients over time and tie her business success directly to their results. That throughline—impact and alignment, not just income—is the filter she uses in the episode to decide when a membership is actually worth it.

Another core reason Dormieux leaned into memberships, which she shares bluntly in the episode, is that she is not a natural risk-taker and would have happily stayed an employee; she jokes that she “became an entrepreneur for love.” For someone wired like that, the appeal of recurring revenue is very practical: you don’t start every month at zero, you can plan, you can hire, and you’re not stuck on the treadmill of chasing one-off projects or launches. She emphasizes that recurring revenue from memberships becomes a stable foundation you can invest against, rather than a roller coaster that keeps you anxious and reactive.

Crucially, she contrasts memberships with standalone online courses. With a course, you can be a great salesperson, ship something mediocre, and still make money because the business model doesn’t require people to finish or get results. With a membership, "that is not working"—your income depends on people staying, and people only stay if they’re actually progressing. That simple difference is why she believes, and teaches in this episode, that memberships are best suited to experts who care deeply about member outcomes, not just about front-end sales.

What types of membership models did this episode break down?

Throughout the episode, Dormieux and Riner walk through several concrete membership configurations rather than treating "membership" as one vague thing. Dormieux repeatedly comes back to the idea that the model should be built around the problem you’re solving and the way you like to work, and she uses client examples to make the different options real.

One big category she names is what she calls the "next generation of online courses"—memberships that look a lot like a coaching program. These typically include a structured curriculum plus live support calls and often an optional accountability track. Instead of selling a six-week or eight-week course that ends with a "bye-bye" at the end, you sell access to a membership that contains the course AND provides ongoing support and implementation help. The pricing might front-load the first payment a bit higher, but what people are really buying is long-term access to guidance and accountability. In the episode, she argues that this structure naturally produces more testimonials and success stories because members are not abandoned at week six when life inevitably got in the way.

Another common model she describes is the "monthly theme" membership. Here, each month that a member remains subscribed, they receive a new bundle of content—a mix that might include videos, PDFs, reading, mantras, meditations, or other tools, depending on the market. Members also keep access to previous bundles. Dormieux compares it to a subscription box model: each month you get a curated set, you choose what to consume, and the value is in ongoing access to fresh, structured content, not necessarily in live community.

There are also pure "content access" memberships that work especially well in education and similar fields. In the episode, she mentions memberships where kindergarten or first-grade teachers join and can download classroom materials each month; some of these even work on a credit system—say three downloads per month—as long as the subscription is active. Here, there may be little or no community or coaching; the core promise is: pay a steady fee, and you can reliably access and pull down the resources you need.

Dormieux then outlines access-and-perks models. Some memberships are essentially VIP passes to discounts, coupons, or exclusive services, like coaches who only offer 1:1 sessions to people inside their membership or brick-and-mortar businesses that package discounts and priority service into a subscription. She brings up ideas like birthday-only offers or percentage discounts that make it feel like a no-brainer for regular customers, and she and Riner explicitly connect this to loyalty: done well, the math is so obviously in the member’s favor that they’d be silly not to remain.

Finally, she shares simple, minimalist models, like a client of hers, John Burgos, who runs a weekly call around gratitude and similar themes. His membership is basically one live call a week plus the replay uploaded to the member area—no big course library, no elaborate bonus stack—and yet, as she notes, it has been running successfully for years. That example underlines a key point from the episode: a membership doesn’t have to be complicated to work; it just has to reliably deliver on a problem or desire that people are genuinely willing to keep paying for.

How do memberships apply beyond online coaches—especially for brick-and-mortar businesses?

One of the most useful parts of this Profit with a Plan episode is when host Marcia Riner pushes the conversation beyond coaches and course creators and into brick-and-mortar territory. She lays out a very concrete scenario for a home services business—like HVAC or plumbing—where the membership is essentially a service contract with predictable maintenance and a built-in emergency buffer. For example, a customer might pay $99 per month for quarterly tune-ups, preventive checks, and one included service call per year. Because the company is already maintaining the system, the likelihood of emergency breakdowns goes down, which lowers the provider’s risk while giving the customer real peace of mind.

Dormieux agrees and extends that thinking: for local and service-based businesses, a membership is not only about recurring revenue but also about building loyalty and reducing churn. She and Riner reference common loyalty card schemes—like car washes that give you a free wash after nine—and argue that a true membership is “next level.” Instead of just a punch card, you can create a subscription where members receive ongoing benefits like a percentage off retail, a free detailing or special service on their birthday, or access to members-only offers. The critical design principle they emphasize is that when a customer does the math, staying a member should feel like a no-brainer because they know they will keep coming back anyway.

They also address the classic “gym problem,” where people pay monthly and don’t show up. Riner acknowledges that in many memberships, buyers forget to use what they paid for, but she flips it into a strategic point: if you build in re-engagement mechanisms—like birthday training sessions, periodic freebies, or proactive outreach—you can bring people back in before they cancel. Dormieux agrees that this kind of intentional re-engagement is what keeps retention high and also opens up upsell opportunities, referrals, and additional service sales from a client base that already trusts you.

From the business owner’s side, both women highlight the financial leverage. Having even dozens or a few hundred members paying monthly changes the way you experience each new month: you wake up with money already committed instead of starting at zero and hustling for each new sale. Riner, whose overall show focuses on building sale-ready businesses, explicitly ties this to company valuation: recurring revenue memberships are a "serious profit booster" and materially increase the attractiveness and value of a business, particularly because they can often be systematized and transferred to a new owner.

How should you design a membership around your existing offers and client journey?

A big theme in the episode is integration: Dormieux keeps asking, "Where does the membership fit in your existing business?" rather than treating it as a standalone product you bolt on and hope for the best. She suggests looking at three main entry points: segments of your audience you’re not yet serving, existing courses or coaching programs that leave people on their own too soon, and alumni who’ve completed something with you but still have ongoing needs.

First, for audiences without a current offer, a membership can be a way to profitably and consistently serve that segment. Maybe you have leads or followers who aren’t ready for your high-ticket program but still want support; a membership gives them a structured, lower-bar way to work with you while still creating recurring revenue for the business.

Second, she dives into the course-to-membership transition. Many listeners, she notes, have a “great course” that still produces disappointing completion rates. Her suggestion is to reframe the course as part of a membership, not the whole offer. You might charge a higher initial payment that grants access to the core curriculum and then a lower ongoing monthly fee that covers continued support, Q&A calls, and accountability. In the episode, she criticizes the common pattern of six-week or eight-week courses that try to cram everything into a short time window and then either tack on a “catch-up week” (which she calls “the worst thing you can do” because it just signals that people are behind) or drop people entirely at the end. The membership overlay solves this by giving people more realistic time to implement while still staying connected to you.

Third, Dormieux recommends looking at alumni flows. If you run events, masterminds, or 1:1 programs that have a clear end, you are, in her words, literally leaving money on the table if you have no compelling next step. She suggests designing an alumni-style membership that acknowledges the main problem of the original program is now solved—but that new problems have been created by that success. For example, if your core program helped someone design a new offer, the membership might focus on implementing and marketing that offer over the next year. That creates continuity, gives you longer lifetime value per client, and, most importantly in her view, supports clients through the part that actually takes the most time: implementation.

Underneath all of this is a simple diagnostic question she encourages listeners to use: "What is the next logical thing my customer needs or wants that I could easily deliver?" In the episode, Riner echoes this point strongly, warning that if clients come to you for Solution A and then drift to someone else for Solution B, you trap yourself in perpetual client-chase mode. A well-placed membership can keep them in your ecosystem, expand your understanding of their ongoing needs, and create a much longer, more profitable relationship for both sides.

What is the right way to start a membership—especially around tech and validation?

When listeners worry about starting a membership, the first fear that comes up in this episode is almost always technology: what platform, what software, how to "feed" it with content. Dormieux is blunt that this is the wrong place to start. As a tech strategist whose “specialty at the core is the tech,” she explains that she and her team hardly discuss platforms with new clients until they have at least one critical piece in place: an interest list of real people who’ve raised their hand for the membership concept. Choosing a tool too early, she argues, forces you to fit your idea into the mold of that tool, instead of designing the member experience that actually matches your model.

Her recommended starting point in the episode is much more foundational and mindset-driven. First, you have to get honest about why you’re considering a membership at all. Is it just the siren song of recurring revenue, or do you have a clear picture of how this offer would sit inside your business, who it would serve, and what it would allow you to stop doing? She notes that memberships require you to make space, and only a compelling vision—one that genuinely excites you—will pull you through the inevitable early friction. If you find yourself thinking “first roadblock, see, this wasn’t a good idea,” she suggests that’s often a sign that the idea wasn’t aligned to begin with.

Once your why and where-it-fits are clear, her next step is validation, not setup. That means talking to your existing audience or clients, testing whether the problem you want to solve on an ongoing basis is actually urgent to them, and assembling a list of people who are ready to join or at least seriously interested. She and Riner both emphasize in the conversation that you should not be picking and paying for yet another tool before you have this demand signal; otherwise, you risk building a beautifully engineered ghost town.

On the tech side itself, both women note how many modern tools already have membership or community capabilities built in. Riner mentions that a lot of today’s marketing and course platforms include community features or simple recurring payment setups, which makes it easier to plug a membership into systems you already use. Dormieux doesn’t promote a specific platform in this conversation; her consistent message is that the tool should serve the model, not the other way around, and that you start with problem, vision, and validation before you touch the tech.

Why do memberships improve retention, profit, and even business value?

A recurring line in this Profit with a Plan episode is that well-designed memberships are not just another offer; they’re a real asset in the business. Riner’s whole show is about building companies that are both highly profitable now and more valuable if you decide to sell, and she explicitly asks Dormieux to connect memberships to that bigger picture. Dormieux responds that one of the most overlooked benefits of a good membership is how “sellable” it is: when buyers look at businesses, they are primarily buying recurring revenue streams and the systems around them. A strong membership with predictable monthly recurring revenue (MRR) and documented delivery processes checks both boxes.

Dormieux mentions a specific tool she created—a Monthly Recurring Revenue Calculator—precisely to make this real for business owners. The calculator, which she offers at themembershiplab.com/mrr-calculator, lets you plug in a target like $5,000, $10,000, or $15,000 per month and then see how many members you’d need, at what price, and for how long, to hit that number. She says on the episode that "it’s a lot less than you think" and that this simple exercise has been "eye-opening" for many people, because it shifts memberships from abstract wish to concrete math. Once you see that, for example, a few dozen or a couple of hundred members can materially change your baseline revenue, the strategic value is hard to ignore.

On the day-to-day level, Riner underlines another financial point: the cost to keep a client is a tiny fraction of the cost to acquire a new one. A membership, by definition, is a structure for keeping clients longer, which means every dollar you’ve invested in acquisition continues to pay you back month after month. When you stack that with upsell opportunities and referrals that naturally arise from long-term members, the overall profit picture changes dramatically. Dormieux echoes this by reminding listeners that with a membership “you sell once and then you don’t have to sell again—you deliver and support people inside the membership.” You still market and enroll new people, of course, but the foundation of committed members makes every new sale additive rather than survival.

Finally, they circle back to the human experience that underpins those numbers: results and loyalty. Dormieux is unequivocal that “there is one thing and one thing only” that will keep people paying: getting results. Community, perks, content—those all help, but if members are not progressing on the core problem, retention will suffer. Riner combines that with her brick-and-mortar examples to show how solving a problem consistently over time naturally breeds loyalty. Whether it’s a home service plan that keeps systems running, a teacher membership that keeps fresh classroom materials coming, or a coaching community that provides real accountability, the business wins because the member wins—and that, in their shared view, is exactly what turns a membership from a nice idea into a durable, saleable asset.

Taken together, this episode of Profit with a Plan, "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue," offers a lived-in roadmap for anyone considering memberships—from online experts to local service providers. Nathalie Dormieux and Marcia Riner ground everything in alignment, recurring problems, simple models, and clear math, showing how a thoughtfully designed membership can improve client results, stabilize cash flow, and substantially increase the value of your business. For the full nuance, additional examples, and Dormieux’s own story, it’s worth listening to the complete conversation on the original episode page at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/lbbc7jxr.

Key Takeaways

Key Definitions

Membership model
Membership model is a business structure where customers pay a recurring fee—usually monthly or annually—to access ongoing value such as content, coaching, services, community, or perks, and in this episode Nathalie Dormieux describes it as a way to turn expertise into predictable recurring revenue aligned with your vision.
Monthly Recurring Revenue (MRR)
Monthly Recurring Revenue (MRR) is the predictable amount of revenue a business can expect to receive every month from active subscriptions or memberships, and in this episode it is the key metric Nathalie Dormieux helps owners model with her MRR calculator.
Monthly theme membership
Monthly theme membership is a type of membership where subscribers receive a fresh bundle of content—such as videos, PDFs, readings, or practices—each month and keep access to past bundles as long as they remain members, as described by Nathalie Dormieux in the podcast.
Alumni membership
Alumni membership is a recurring offer designed specifically for graduates of a course, program, or event who have solved an initial problem and now need ongoing support, implementation help, or community, which Nathalie Dormieux recommends as a natural next step in the client journey.
Retention in memberships
Retention in memberships is the rate at which members continue their subscription over time, and in this episode Nathalie Dormieux attributes high retention primarily to members achieving real results on the core problem the membership addresses.

Claims & Evidence

Claim

Most people do not finish online courses, which limits their impact compared to memberships.

Evidence

In the episode, Nathalie Dormieux explains that she built online courses for years but became frustrated because “the reality is most people don’t complete online courses,” and she contrasts this with memberships where people only keep paying if they are actually getting results.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" / published September 16, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" / published September 16, 2025
Claim

A membership will only be successful if it solves an ongoing problem people are willing to pay for and the owner is excited to lead it.

Evidence

Dormieux states that a successful membership must 1) solve an ongoing problem, 2) address something people are willing to pay for, and 3) be something the leader is excited to run, warning that when these elements are missing "that’s when people say it’s really hard" and secretly don’t want to do it.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" / published September 16, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" / published September 16, 2025
Claim

Brick-and-mortar businesses can use memberships to create loyalty and predictable revenue with simple benefit structures.

Evidence

Marcia Riner gives the example of an HVAC company charging $99 per month to provide seasonal tune-ups and one annual service call, while Dormieux extends the idea to car washes and retail with birthday discounts or detailing offers that make staying a member a no-brainer for regular customers.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" / published September 16, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" / published September 16, 2025
Claim

Choosing membership software before validating the offer is a common mistake that can constrain the model.

Evidence

Despite being a tech strategist, Dormieux tells listeners that she and her team "hardly talk about the tech" until clients have built an interest list, and warns that picking a tool too early means "you’re going to have to fit the mold of the tool" instead of designing the right member experience first.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" / published September 16, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" / published September 16, 2025
Claim

Adding a membership to a business increases its attractiveness and value to potential buyers.

Evidence

Near the end of the episode, Dormieux notes that memberships are "very sellable" because when people buy businesses they are buying recurring revenue, and Riner agrees that this kind of predictable income stream is a "huge asset" that is also automatable and transferable to a new owner.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" / published September 16, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Membership Models That Drive Recurring Revenue" / published September 16, 2025

Key Questions Answered

How do I know if I’m ready to launch a membership in my business?

According to Nathalie Dormieux on Profit with a Plan, you’re ready to launch a membership when three things line up: you’ve identified an ongoing problem your audience has, they’re clearly willing to pay for an ongoing solution, and you’re genuinely excited to lead that kind of offer over time. She advises looking at where a membership would sit in your existing business—serving an unserved audience segment, extending support for a course, or giving alumni a next step—before you worry about platforms or pricing so you’re not launching something that feels like a second job you secretly resent.

What membership models work best for coaches and course creators?

In this episode, Dormieux explains that coaches and course creators often do best with memberships that blend curriculum, live coaching, and accountability rather than pure content libraries. A common pattern she recommends is turning a standalone course into a membership by including the course inside a recurring offer, where the first payment unlocks the core training and the monthly fee covers ongoing Q&A, support calls, and implementation help so members have time to finish and apply what they bought.

Can brick-and-mortar businesses use memberships to increase recurring revenue?

Yes, and this episode lays out several practical examples for brick-and-mortar and service businesses. Marcia Riner describes HVAC or home services memberships where customers pay a monthly fee for regular maintenance plus one included service call, and Nathalie Dormieux adds ideas like car-wash or retail memberships that bundle discounts, birthday perks, or priority services, all of which build loyalty and create a predictable revenue floor for the owner.

How do I decide what to include in a membership without overwhelming myself?

Dormieux tells listeners not to assume a membership has to be complicated or content-heavy; instead, design it around a narrow problem and a delivery format you can happily sustain. She shares examples from her clients, including a simple model where one client runs a single weekly call and posts the replay with no extra resource library, and another where a voice coach created a core training plus a limited number of 1:1 spots each week for members only, proving that constrained, well-defined benefits work better than sprawling promises.

What’s the first step to starting a membership: choosing software or validating the idea?

On Profit with a Plan, Dormieux is explicit that validation comes first and software comes later, even though her own specialty is tech. She recommends clarifying why you want a membership, how it fits into your current offers, and building an interest list of real people who say they want this solution before you pick a platform; otherwise, you risk forcing your idea into the constraints of a tool and paying for software to host a membership no one asked for.

How can memberships improve my course completion rates and client results?

Dormieux argues that if you add a membership layer to your course—so people join a membership that contains the course, plus ongoing access to support and accountability—you give them much more realistic time and structure to finish. In the episode she critiques short, intense courses with “catch-up weeks,” saying they just make people feel late and drop off, whereas an ongoing membership lets you keep coaching, checking in, and nudging members toward actual implementation, which leads to more success stories and better marketing for you.

How do memberships affect the resale value of my business?

Both Dormieux and Riner emphasize that a strong membership significantly boosts resale value because most buyers are looking for predictable recurring revenue streams and systems they can inherit. If you can show a history of stable Monthly Recurring Revenue from a membership, along with documented processes for delivering the content or services, you’re offering a buyer an asset that produces cash flow from day one rather than a business that has to start each month from zero.

What is Nathalie Dormieux’s MRR calculator and how does it help with memberships?

In the episode, Dormieux mentions a free Monthly Recurring Revenue Calculator available at themembershiplab.com/mrr-calculator that lets you plug in target amounts like $5,000, $10,000, or $15,000 per month and see how many members, at what price, and how long they need to stay to hit that goal. She says this simple tool has been eye-opening for many owners because it turns the idea of “I want recurring revenue” into hard numbers, often revealing that they need fewer members than they assumed to meaningfully change their baseline income.

Full Episode Transcript
Speaker A: What if your expertise could generate recurring revenue without you being tied to it every day? In this episode, Natalie Dormieux shares how to create a membership model that aligns with your vision, attracts the right people, and becomes a real asset in your, in your business. You'll hear how to know if you're ready, simple ways to validate your idea, and why memberships can completely shift the way you grow. So if you've been wondering whether a membership is right for your business, this conversation will give you the clarity you've been waiting for on today's Profit with a Plan podcast. Hey entrepreneurs, are you working too hard for too little profit? Well, welcome to Profit with a Plan Podcast, where we help you scale smarter, increase profitability, and build a business that's worth more, whether you keep it or sell it. I'm Marcia Riner, business growth strategist and the profit booster behind Infinite Profit. I've helped countless entrepreneurs to turn their businesses into highly profitable and sale-ready assets so they enjoy more income now and a bigger payday later. So join me for practical strategies, expert insights, and proven steps to make your business more profitable, more valuable, and built to last. By the way, today's episode is sponsored by Infinite Profit, where we don't just talk profit, we deliver it. And, uh, before we dive in, I've got something really special for you. If you're a business owner who's tired of overcomplicated, overpriced marketing strategies that just don't deliver, Well, listen up. What if there was a simple, affordable way to market your business that actually works? The Profit Booster Marketing Hub gives you templates, automation tools to capture leads, nurture them, and close more sales without the tech headaches. Go see it in action at profitbooster.biz. All right, let's jump into today's episode. Our guest today is someone who has cracked the code on turning expertise into recurring revenue. Natalie Dora Mew is widely known as the Membership Maven and a tech strategist with more than a decade of experience helping coaches, consultants, and course creators build high-retention membership programs that truly drive results. She believes that memberships aren't just another product. They are a powerful business asset that allows entrepreneurs to scale smarter, free up their time, and create consistent recurring income. Nathalie has helped countless business owners validate their idea, design programs that align with their vision, and launch memberships that keep members engaged for the long haul. Nathalie, welcome to Profit with a Plan. I'm so happy you're on today. Speaker B: Well, thank you so much for having me, Marcia. I'm excited for this conversation. Speaker A: Me too. And for the listeners listening, um, there is a slight accent with Nathalie. So Nathalie, where are you calling in from? Speaker B: So I am calling in from the south of France. Speaker A: Beautiful. I've been there and it's just so gorgeous and such a wonderful place to be. But you're also, um, you lived in the US for quite a long time, right? Yes. Speaker B: So we've lived in the US for 10 years. We were in the Silicon Valley. Oh, so we kind of move around, you know, Bay Area, East, you know, um, and then we ended, um, downtown San Francisco. Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. I grew up just south of San Francisco, so I know the area really well. And now being in Vegas, it's like it's a little bit different, but, um, but it's, it's wonderful. So I'm glad we have some connections in, in our locations that we've been in. So let me ask you a question as we get started in this. Um, why did you land on memberships? What was that that really brought you into the space? Speaker B: Yeah, so it's, it's, uh, really interesting because people have been asking me that question and, um, It's been gradual, right? It's an opportunity that came to me. So our background is in tech, right? Software engineering, that's what we were doing in Silicon Valley. And when we moved back to France and started the business, when you start a business, you want to start it around something that you know, right? An expertise you have. So we're like, well, let's build software. That didn't really work out because we were ignoring sales and marketing, which we hated, right? So long story short, we're like, we hired a coach, which told us, well, you should go online because then the market, you know, is much bigger and do websites. And then from websites, I found out about online courses and then memberships. And the evolution has been in how more powerful I felt and the bigger impact that I could make. A website, there are so many great designers, they can build you beautiful websites. That's not me, right? Online courses, great. I've done this for years, but the reality is most people don't complete online courses and that bugs me. Speaker A: Exactly. That's so true. Speaker B: And what I love about the membership model, and I don't have a membership myself, and we can talk about that. Alignment, you know, aligning with your vision. Speaker A: Like, that's not the cobbler's kid's shoes, right? We don't have— Speaker B: exactly. Again, because like you were saying, you know, um, a membership, uh, the membership model is a great way to scale a business, but it will only work if it's aligned with your vision. Speaker A: I love it. Speaker B: So, um, What happened is that, well, when we started the business, my husband has always wanted to have his business. I did not. I would be perfectly fine being an employee. Let's be honest, I'm not a risk taker. So I like to say that I became an entrepreneur for, like, for love. So what attracted me with the membership model is that the recurring aspect of it, the fact that you don't start your months at zero. Speaker A: Isn't that great? Speaker B: Yeah. And so, I mean, we do have some recurring, but it's not a membership in the sense membership community, right? And so it's a model that I think fits so well any business that is looking to continue to support someone, you know, their clients on an ongoing basis and is looking for a stable foundation, predictable income so that you can make that investment, right? So that you can hire the people. Instead of having to chase clients every single month, right? So, because people are not necessarily wired for this, like some people love to be on sales calls all the time and some people hate it, right? So that's basically, it's been an evolution, right? I did online courses and then when I found out that there was this membership thing, I'm like, I think this is where I can make the most impact with people. Again, because my focus is on my clients being successful. And when you run a membership, the only way you're going to be successful is if your members are successful, unlike an online course, because you could sell an online course and be a great salesperson and your course can suck, you'll still make money. With membership, that is not working. You have to have the impact for your members. So those are all the pieces, you know, the reasons why I, I love this model so much, and it, it can look so many different ways, right? There are so many different models inside the membership space. Speaker A: Well, I love how you fell into it, right? Um, you know, I've been practicing— I call it practice because it is something that we practice and evolve and we do. But my goodness, for, for over 25 years in my space, and it's continuously evolved and found different variations of my business, the results are always kind the same, you know, that I'm driving for. But you look at different ways that people learn, different ways that people buy, different needs, because our buyers evolve. Like right now, everybody's in the I want it in an hour, right? Give it to me delivered on my doorstep yesterday, and I want it for next to nothing. And, you know, I mean, it's this instant kind of marketplace. And it's so funny when you talk about courses and how people never finish them. They don't, because oftentimes it means work, and people don't want to do more work. They just want the result. And I love how I'm kind of matching your membership idea to community, right? They want a place where they can get support, they can get ideas, they can get help, they can, you know, they can figure things out, find other people that are in the trenches right next to them. And I think that really excites people, right? They want to belong and feel like, ah, right? Exactly. Speaker B: Yeah. Community is really a key piece of most memberships. There are a few that don't have a community piece, but by large, the community element is very, very powerful. And that is what is keeping people engaged because You get to see what is possible when people are sharing what they are doing. So it shows you it's possible. And two, you can help. And I think we undervalue the power of what it feels like to help and to feel that you are participating, you know, in the success and you're sharing and you're giving back. Speaker A: Exactly. Speaker B: And that really boosts our motivation, our confidence. Right? So it's, it's these two sides, right? They say a rising tide lifts all boats. I mean, that's exactly what it is. Speaker A: Nice. So you mentioned there's several variations of a membership program. Um, you know, I just naturally fell into the community space, but that's only one. What are the other kinds of ways that a membership can be beneficial for the company as well as the, the buyer? Speaker B: Yeah. So let me just talk about like what is a successful membership and then we can talk about, because it's kind of like comes from that. So a successful membership is going to be a membership that once solves a problem, an ongoing problem that people have, that they are willing to pay for, and that you are excited to lead, which is very, very important. Now, you might or might not have the expertise because you can be the curator and bring in people that have the expertise, right? But if you don't have these three pieces, you're not going to have a successful membership. That's when people say it's really hard. That's because deep down, that's not what they want to do, right? So the models are like so very different. So we talked about the community aspect, right? Uh, there are memberships that, um, look very much like coaching programs. That means that you have some type of curriculum and then you have, uh, some calls for support. And then maybe you have an accountability program that you can sign up to, right? So those are like, they're like the, the next generation of online courses where you get ongoing support, right? So that's one piece. There is the traditional membership that is the, I call it the monthly theme. And basically this is you join a membership and every month that you pay, you get some type of bundle that can be a mix of video, PDF, maybe a book to read, maybe a mantra, a meditation, you know, depending on what the market is. That's the monthly theme. Type of membership where every month that you stay, you get a bundle and then you consume whatever you want and you have access to past bundles, right? Speaker A: Nice. So that idea reminds me of the, the, the, the outfit of the month, right? Some, some companies send you a package with your, with a curated outfit, right? You can wear exactly. Speaker B: Yeah. Like Look Hero, stuff like that. Yeah, I did that. Yeah, exactly. So in these, very often there are no community really. It's about getting access to the information. One that works really well for— it works really well for education, for example. So kindergarten teacher, you know, first grade, third grade, they join these memberships where they can download materials for kids. As long as they pay, they can download stuff, right? Maybe you get 3 credits a month and you get to choose what you download, right? I like it. Yeah, this is like getting access and some type of access to content as part of being a member. You have memberships that are more, um, around, um, getting access to coupon discount, exclusive offer, and things like that. So there are coaches who would only offer one-on-one sessions to people that are members of their community. I have a client, she's a voice coach. She, uh, she coaches, um, singers and people that teach singing. And so it's very technical, you know, the very technical terms and exercise and stuff. I tried to look into it, it's like, whoo, and not for me. Speaker A: I can't— I only sing in the car when nobody's looking. Speaker B: It's super niched, right? It's like she's niching down, down, down, down, deep, deep. But like, she was um, like she was refusing people, like she could not take more one-on-one clients. And it took some convincing, but I was like, okay, can you create something where you can help these people and you don't get frustrated by it? And then you offer one-on-one inside, and it's the first one that books gets it. But then you, you're like, I only have 10 spots per week. And that way, that, that, that's your your, um, you know, your parameters, the rules that you set for yourself, your boundaries. I was looking for the word, right? So this is another, you know, uh, model, um, like there. And then you have like lots of combinations, you know, that there is a— there are memberships that are very simple. I have this client, it's called John Burgos, and, um, he's doing weekly calls. It's all about, um, gratitude and, you know, things like that. It's a bit woo-woo. He does a call a week, he puts the replay in the membership. That's it. No resource, no course, nothing. It's been running for years. So you gotta find what is the problem that people are looking for a solution for, right, and are willing to pay for it. And that's that. So that's how you figure out the model, kind of like What does it look like so it works for them and for you? Speaker A: I love it. I love it. Okay, so I'm going to, I'm going to challenge you a little bit here because I know we both work in a space of coaches and consultants. That's, that's pretty much of a normal space. But I also work in spaces where I've got, you know, brick and mortar type businesses that do this. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm listening to this and I'm going, Okay, well, a membership could also work. And when you mentioned the discount version, right, on somebody who provides a service, right? Maybe it's a home service or it's a business service such as an accountant or attorney or home service such as HVAC or plumbers, right? They can actually take that model of a membership, which is really kind of popular, and says— just the example that I'm thinking is we're going to come in and we're going to make sure that your air conditioning I mean, it's tuned up every month, right? Or every quarter, every season change, we're going to come out, make sure the screws are tight, that the thing's working properly. And with that, you get one service call a year, right? Because we know we're working on this, on this unit. So this unit is not going to break down as much. So I'm thinking from the business side, right? And, and so I'm probably not going to get called for a service call each year. So they're going to pay $99 a month to be a member of this program. The customer feels like they get a benefit. The business owner's thinking, okay, risk, right? I'm not going to probably have to go out on that service call because I'm already maintaining the deal. It just seems like a win-win for both sides. And these, these kind of programs can like be truly beneficial, as you mentioned, that you're not starting at zero each month hunting customers down. You've got a stream of you know, a dozen, 200, 1,000 people, whatever the number is, right, that are paying you monthly. Are your podcast guest appearances leading to real business, or are you just hoping that listeners will take action? With the Profit Booster Podcast Monetization Hub, we turn your interviews into lead-generating machines so that you capture, nurture, and convert listeners into paying clients. So stop leaving money on the table and get started today at profitboosterpod.com to be part of this membership. Speaker B: Absolutely. Speaker A: Absolutely. The real important problem is, is that you have to solve that problem. What problem does your ideal client have that they're willing to pay monthly for so that they don't have to worry about it? Speaker B: Exactly. So When you look at the membership model for brick and mortar, you're also building loyalty. Speaker A: Exactly. Speaker B: Right? Because I mean, you know, you know, if you go to a car wash or things like that, you know, sometimes you can get these cards and like after 9, the 10th is free. This is type of loyalty, but this is next level. Imagine if as part of the subscription, you get 5% off the whole store on the day of your birthday. I'm making this up. Speaker A: Sure. You get insider only. Speaker B: Exactly. Or you get 20% off full detailing of your car on the day of your birthday. Right. Who doesn't want that? Right. So you don't have to pay like the $200, like whatever that costs now. To get the car fully clean and detailed, right? So it's about looking at how can I make them loyal, how can I get that recurring income, that predictability, you know, I have this amount of members and still, you wanna make it a no-brainer for people. So when they do the math, they're like, makes no sense, I have no plan of going anywhere else, I know I'm gonna come back here. So might as well take the subscription and get all those benefits with it, right? So it's a win-win. Speaker A: Love it. Now, the funny thing about this, this membership idea, you know, the negative side of it is always if you don't use it. Case in point, the gym, right? I'm at the gym every day. So that's because that's part of my healthcare. But I know that that's kind of that membership that you oftentimes the, the buyer forgets they have it or they don't take advantage of it, right? But in order to have a really good membership, even though people might fall off every once in a while, you still can engage them and you can upsell them and you could say, hey, why don't you come in for a free training on the month of your birthday or something like that? So you can reengage them and then when they're reengaged, they won't first cancel. And number 2, they will come in, use the products, and maybe buy more of the trainings. Right. So there's a lot of benefits to these memberships that you mentioned with that loyalty. Right. And allows you to stay engaged with your ideal customers that can produce more opportunities and even friends and family opportunities that can come out of that. So I just love this model, as you can tell. You know, I mean, yeah. I know a lot about it as you do. I think that, that this is amazing. But here's a question for you, kind of. People get a little scared. How do I set it up? Do I need technology? You know, yikes. Okay, it's great idea. But, you know, I'm already juggling so many things. How do I set this up? Speaker B: Yeah. So I think most people go about it the wrong way. They start to think, what technology do I use? Right. You know, like, how am I going to feed this? It's like, they, they see it as another business, another job for themselves. And like, I'm already busy. I don't think I can do this. So the first thing is really to look at why are you even considering the membership model? What is it that you wanted to bring to your business besides the recurring income, which I get, right? Because you're gonna have to make space for it, right? And what is going to give you the motivation and where you're going to see that you are starting to make progress is when you have that vision and it's— we were talking about this earlier, like when it's aligned with what you really want to do. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: You know, when we know this is what we want, if there is a problem, to every problem a solution, right? But when you're not sure, it's like, oh, this is what I thought, see, first roadblock, maybe that wasn't such a good idea, right? So first is the mindset. Are you really excited about it? I like that. It's where does it fit in your business? You have an existing business, you have a client base, you have an audience, right? Where does this membership fit? Are you thinking, do you want to add a membership because you have an audience, you know, segment of your audience where you don't have an offer for them yet and you want to do something there? So you want to help them, you want to make that impact, but you also want to make money out of it. Speaker A: Sure. Speaker B: Or do you have a coaching program or a course and you're like, dang, my course is great, but I want more people to finish it. So you're like, what if I turned my course into a membership? That means instead of signing up to a course, they sign up to a membership that has the course inside. So maybe the first payment is a bit bigger than the monthly, but what I'm selling is not just the course and then in 6 or 8 weeks I say bye-bye. It's an ongoing support and accountability. Right. So when you do that, you know that you're inevitably, you're going to get more success stories, more testimonials. It's going to be better for your marketing. Right. And you are giving time to people to actually implement. Very often these courses, they don't give you the time. Right. So, so, and you're going to always have these people that are going to give up. Because, you know, week 1, you're a bit late. Week 2, oh my gosh. And then sometimes week 3 is catch up. Speaker A: I give up. Speaker B: Catch up, catch up week. The worst thing you can do in a course, have a catch-up week. What is it saying to people? Catch up, you're late. Come on. No, it should not feel that way, right? Versus if you say, we're going to do this very intensively, you know, for this period of time, but after that, there is ongoing support and accountability. So most people will have not finished, and that's okay. So when you wire it this way, your program becomes even more powerful, but because you know that you're not going to be left alone. Speaker A: Love it. Speaker B: Right? So that's another way. Or maybe you're like, you know what, I've been working with people, uh, one-on-one, or I've been doing events, you know, for a while. I mean, this second part of my life, you know, I want to do a bit less of that. I want to grow the business, I want to create that recurring income, but I want to remove myself a bit, you know, I don't want it to be all about me. But I have all these past clients that have bought my program, that came to my events, right? Maybe I can create a type of alumni membership community, right? So when you think about it that way, There should be hopefully one that's like, you know, when you start, you get the smile and you're like, oh yeah, that could be interesting, right? And that's the kind of feel that you need to have before you go on and do anything. Speaker A: Hmm. Speaker B: I like it. My specialty at the core is the tech, right? Building these memberships. And people are very surprised. We hardly talk about the tech until they've built their interest list. That's the point. It's like choosing a tool when you don't exactly know what your model is going to be. Speaker A: You don't know if anybody's gonna buy it yet. Speaker B: Yeah, you don't know if anybody is going to buy it. You don't know exactly what features you're going to— I mean, you have a bit of an idea, right? But if you want to create a customized a great experience, and you pick a tool, then you're going to have to fit the mold of the tool, right? Which, right now— Speaker A: There's lots of tools out there, right? I mean, there's lots of softwares that can help you with the communities. There's some really big names. There's some smaller names. And a lot of today's technology— because I'm a tech nerd like you are— and a lot of today's technology that is out there have community bases or membership bases already built in. So you might be surprised at where you can find the tech, and it doesn't create this, like, massive headache of, oh, there's this new fee I have to pay, or this new, you know, tech I have to learn, or, you know, whatever. But I think the whole purpose of this conversation is really to have you think differently about memberships. And how it adds tremendous value to what you get, right, as the business owner and, and, and the income that you can generate from this. But on the flip side of that is it also makes a tremendous opportunity for your customer to continue services with you for an extended period of time. Because if you think about it, we offer one thing and, well, what's the lot— next logical thing that your customer needs or wants that you could deliver? And you'd be surprised that we often forget about continuation with our customer because if they come to us for Solution A and then go to somebody else for Solution B when you could have solved it easily, then you're losing customers and you're in that, you know, that, that chase and hunt kind of phase forever where a membership can allow them to learn more about what you do. You learn more about what they need and you can continue to serve them for a longer period of time and make more money off of it. Easy, right? Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, if you have an existing program, right? That has like a natural end, you have a natural end, right? And like it's a 6 weeks, 6 months, 3 months, you know, whatever it is. If you are not helping them with the next thing, then you're, you know, you're leaving money on the table, literally. And we want to think that after they finish your program, if you've solved that problem for them, that introduces very often a new problem. And that could be where your membership comes in. Speaker A: Exactly. Speaker B: So it could be that your program is all about, um, identifying, you know, designing something, you know, coming up with an idea or something like that, and the membership could be all about helping them implement because this is gonna inevitably take more time, right? So you wanna think about it in that way, like how is the membership integrates into your business ecosystem, right? And what it is that you want to grow in the business. Is it a program? Is it an audience? Or, you know, how does it fit, you know? Speaker A: And I think, I think, um, you know, we can go into it longer, um, at another time, but I think that it doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be more stress. And it doesn't have to mean more work for you. And actually, if it's done well, it means less work for you and more engagement and satisfaction on both parties. And I think that I would encourage the audience to really sit down and consider having a membership in their pro— in their offerings, right, to keep that client loyalty and engagement going longer. But Natalie, we're running close on time here. I would love have listeners find out where they could learn more about you and, um, memberships and, and how you put them together and make them super simple. Speaker B: Sure. So you can find me at themembershiplab.com and actually I have a little gift for you that if you are thinking about, um, adding a membership to your business, or if you want to see what it looks like, because we want to look at the numbers, right? Numbers are really important. I have a monthly recurring revenue calculator, and basically what it does is that it is going to show you what it looks like to add $5,000, $10,000, $15,000 a month to your business, how many members you need, how much you need to charge, and how long do they need to stay in order for you to get that recurring income. And it's a lot less than you think, okay? So, um, if you want to get that tool, you can go to themembershiplab.com/mrr-calculator. Could have made this simpler, but that's what the URL is. Speaker A: Monthly recurring revenue, MRR-calculator. To me, it makes total sense. So it's perfect. Speaker B: But this, this tool has been eye-opening for people because again, the let the numbers speak and let it see what it looks like for you. Remember, when you have a membership, you sell once and then you don't have to sell again. You deliver, you support people, right, inside the membership. Speaker A: And you wake up morning, every morning, and you already have the cash register ringing for the month, right? You're not out there hunting all the time. You still have to hunt, don't get us wrong, But this is a lovely, um, complement to your company, and it is a serious profit booster having this kind of, um, opportunity in your business, this kind of offer in your business to be able to flip the switch. And, and with the amount of effort and thinking of the cost to acquire a new client, the cost to keep a client is a minute fraction of what that is. And it creates huge benefit for you as a business owner. So I would encourage you to run Natalie's calculator, figure out what it is. I know you're going to be surprised at that and go, wow, I only need that many people. Speaker B: Really? Speaker A: Okay, well, maybe it is doable, right? Yeah. And get some help to build that out. Speaker B: Absolutely. One thing that I will add, then I think you'd like, love as well, is that this is very sellable. It's very sellable because, you know, when people buy businesses, what do they buy? Speaker A: They buy recurring revenue and the people, right? Speaker B: So yeah, so it's, uh, if, if you're looking to eventually sell the business, adding this piece to your business is, is a big asset. Speaker A: It's a huge asset. And it's something too that can be so automated and deliverable and transferable. It's like that we can go down a whole nother rabbit hole on that one. But it is a really— thank you for sharing that actual, that, that bonus thought to it. It is really truly a, a piece that you want to consider in your business on it. And I know your customers will love it as well. So yeah, this is— this has been really good. Alright. So I would encourage you definitely to go get that. I know that it is a powerful piece for your business, and Natalie is the maven and totally understands the space. So you can get a lot from her as well. So thanks for listening today. I hope you picked up some valuable insight and actionable ideas that will help you make your business more profitable. And as we were mentioning, I know that adding a membership base to your company would really tip the scales for you on that. All right, if you're tired of overpriced marketing that's complicated and time-consuming, the Profit Booster Marketing Hub is your low-cost, easy-to-use alternative to expensive strategies, complete with automations, templates, and a personalized strategy call. Go get details at profitbooster.biz. And don't forget to subscribe. You don't want to miss future shows. You can always find Profit with a Plan on any of your favorite podcast platforms. We're looking forward to more great profitable strategies on next week's show. So until then, make your plans and profit with them. Thank you so much, Nathalie. I love this conversation. You added so much value, and I know the audience is going, yes, this is what I need. Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me, Marcia. That was fun. Speaker A: Perfect.

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