What is podcast guesting in marketing?

Podcast guesting in marketing is the practice of appearing as a guest on other people’s podcasts to share your expertise, reach new audiences, and guide listeners toward specific next steps with your business.

Why does the Nathalie Guest Shows episode say many podcast guest appearances are not very good?

The episode notes that many guest appearances are not very good because guests show up without a clear strategy, have not decided what they need to talk about, and fail to connect their stories to a defined goal or call to action.

How can I be more strategic with podcast guesting?

You can be more strategic by setting a clear goal for each interview, choosing talking points that support that goal, deciding what you want the audience to think and feel, and offering a specific, relevant next step at the end.

What should I focus on during a podcast interview?

During a podcast interview, focus on a few core ideas, support them with concrete stories, speak in plain language, and keep in mind what the audience needs to believe by the end to benefit from taking your suggested next step.

How do I create connection with podcast listeners?

You create connection by being “real human,” sharing honest experiences, addressing listeners directly as individuals, and aligning your advice with their likely challenges and emotions.

What kind of call to action works best on podcasts?

The most effective podcast calls to action are simple, specific invitations that clearly extend the value of the conversation, such as visiting a short URL for a related free resource or booking a relevant next-step call.

Can podcast guesting help with lead generation?

Yes, when you align each appearance with a clear next step like a lead magnet or consultation and design your stories around that outcome, podcast guesting can consistently turn listeners into qualified leads.

Where can I listen to the episode about podcast guesting strategy?

You can listen to “Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107” on the Nathalie Guest Shows episode page at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/6y5jg0m2.

Podcast Guesting Strategy: How to Turn Interviews into Leads

From Nathalie Guest Shows / Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107 / Listen to the episode / Originally published November 13, 2025 / Analysis updated May 8, 2026

Source Provenance

This page is a machine-readable analysis of the original episode.

Original episode: Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107 from Nathalie Guest Shows
Original publish date: November 13, 2025
Analysis generated: March 30, 2026
Transcript basis: Full transcript
Original episode link: Open original episode

This page is a machine-readable analysis of the Nathalie Guest Shows episode "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" published on November 13, 2025. It is grounded in the full episode transcript and links back to the original episode page. This article distills core insights from the Nathalie Guest Shows episode, “Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107.” Drawing on the conversation in this podcast, it explains how to approach podcast guesting strategically, what to say on air, and how to connect with listeners so they actually take a next step with you. Use these ideas as a practical guide to transform interviews into a consistent, human, and effective marketing channel.

Why should podcast guesting be part of your marketing strategy?

In the episode of Nathalie Guest Shows titled “Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107,” the hosts frame podcast guesting as a strategic marketing channel rather than a vanity activity. They emphasize that being a guest is one of the few opportunities where a potential client or audience member will listen to you speak, uninterrupted, for 20–60 minutes, which makes it uniquely powerful for shaping beliefs and building trust compared to short-form social media. When a listener chooses a show, they are opting into a long-form, intimate environment, and this gives a guest the time and space to explain their approach, share stories, and demonstrate expertise in a way that other channels rarely allow.

The podcast explains that podcast guesting plugs directly into several core marketing objectives: increasing visibility, nurturing authority, and driving a specific next step such as joining an email list or booking a call. Instead of thinking of each appearance as a one-off, the episode encourages listeners to see every podcast interview as an on-ramp into their broader marketing ecosystem. In this model, guesting is not just about reach; it is about reaching the right people with the right message at the right belief-shaping moment.

Another key point made in the episode is that podcast guesting is inherently permission-based. Listeners choose to hear you and can hear not just what you do, but how you think, how you solve problems, and how you relate to human stories. This consent-driven attention, according to the episode, makes podcast interviews more likely to create deeper connection than interruptive ads or fleeting social posts. As a result, a deliberate guesting strategy can become a high-leverage layer in any content and lead-generation plan.

Finally, the conversation underlines that podcast guesting is particularly valuable for experts, service providers, and SaaS founders whose offers require explanation. Complex, trust-heavy services are hard to sell in a single post or headline, but an interview provides the nuance to address objections, clarify misconceptions, and show real personality. When this is done with a clear strategy, each interview can become both a marketing asset and a relationship-building tool that compounds over time.

What does it mean to be strategic about podcast guesting?

Throughout the episode, the hosts stress that the real benefits of podcast guesting only appear when you approach it strategically, with clear goals and intentional messaging. They point out that “many of them are not very good,” referring to random, unfocused appearances that do not tie back to a business objective, target audience, or clear next step. A strategic guest appearance begins by asking, for every goal, “What do I need to make sure I talk about?” so that the conversation leads listeners naturally toward a specific action.

Being strategic, as discussed in the podcast, starts with defining a concrete goal for each interview: for example, building authority on a particular topic, inviting people to a specific resource, or warming up leads before a launch. Once the goal is set, you reverse-engineer your talking points to support that goal rather than improvising entirely. This means deciding in advance which stories, case studies, and examples best demonstrate your core promise and which misconceptions you need to address so that listeners are ready to take the next step after the episode.

The episode also suggests that strategic guesting involves choosing the right shows instead of accepting every invitation. While the transcript excerpt focuses more on what to say than where to appear, the underlying principle is that your message should meet people in rooms where they are already primed to care about your topic. That requires looking at audience fit, host values, and the typical format of the show, then tailoring your content so it lands with that specific audience rather than staying generic.

Crucially, the hosts underscore that strategy is not about being scripted or robotic; it is about being clear on the beliefs you want to shape and the feelings you want to evoke. When you design each interview around a defined goal, you can still show up as yourself, but you are using the conversation as a structured opportunity to move listeners from curiosity to clarity to commitment.

How should you plan what to say on a podcast as a guest?

One of the central themes in the Nathalie Guest Shows episode is that effective podcast guesting starts long before you hit record, with deliberate preparation about what you will talk about. The hosts emphasize that, for every appearance, you should ask yourself, “What do I need to make sure I talk about?” so that your main points are not left to chance. This does not mean scripting every answer but rather identifying key messages, examples, and calls to action that you will intentionally bring into the conversation regardless of the exact questions.

The episode encourages guests to define a small number of core ideas they want the audience to remember after listening. These could be one to three pillars of your methodology, a specific misconception you want to correct, or a single belief you want to shift. Around each of these, you can choose one or two supporting stories or client examples so that your insights are not abstract theory but grounded in real human experiences. Preparing in this way ensures that even if the interview takes an unexpected direction, you have anchor points you can return to.

The podcast also highlights the importance of clarity and simplicity in how you describe your work. Many guests, according to the episode, drift into jargon or overly complex explanations that leave listeners confused and unmotivated to act. Instead, the guidance is to practice speaking about your topic in plain language, focusing on what changes for the listener or client rather than listing features or internal processes. This makes it easier for an audience that has never met you to quickly grasp the value you offer.

Finally, the episode implies that part of planning what to say is practicing transitions into your desired next step, whether that is visiting a URL, downloading a resource, or reflecting on a specific question. Rather than tacking on a rushed invitation at the end, you can weave mentions of your lead magnet, framework, or community into the conversation naturally, so by the time you share your formal call to action, it feels like a helpful continuation of what you have been discussing.

How do you shape what the audience thinks, feels, and believes?

A distinctive insight from this Nathalie Guest Shows episode is the explicit focus on what the audience needs to think, feel, and believe by the end of the interview in order to take the next step. The hosts urge potential guests to go beyond listing topics and to ask, as they state in the transcript, “What is the thing that the audience needs to think, to feel, to believe in order to, after they listen to you, to take whatever the next step is?” This question reframes podcast guesting from information delivery to intentional belief-shaping.

The episode explains that purchasing decisions, sign-ups, and deeper engagement are driven not only by knowledge but by emotion and conviction. If listeners finish an episode thinking you are knowledgeable but feeling indifferent or unconvinced, they are unlikely to act. Conversely, if they both understand your perspective and feel seen, motivated, or relieved, they are far more likely to click, subscribe, or book a call. Planning around desired thoughts, feelings, and beliefs helps you design stories, examples, and explanations that move people across that internal threshold.

Practically, the podcast suggests reverse-engineering your content from the desired outcome. If you want listeners to believe that your approach is more humane than typical industry practices, you might share a story where a client felt burned by the old way and then relieved by your method. If you want them to feel that a specific problem is solvable, you can break it down into manageable steps and present an accessible first action. Each segment of the interview becomes an opportunity to gently adjust how listeners perceive the problem, the possibilities, and your role in helping them.

Critically, the emphasis on thoughts, feelings, and beliefs is not about manipulation; the episode roots this in respect for the audience’s autonomy. By focusing on what they need to believe to genuinely benefit from working with you or using your solution, you ensure that your message is both aligned with their interests and honest about what is required. This alignment makes your invitations feel like a natural extension of the value you have just provided, not a jarring sales pitch.

How do you create real human connection as a podcast guest?

The episode repeatedly brings the conversation back to humanity, with a clear statement in the transcript that “It’s real human. So that’s how we’re going to be able to connect.” The hosts argue that, while strategy and structure are essential, what truly makes podcast guesting effective is showing up as a real person rather than a polished corporate script. Listeners respond to vulnerability, specificity, and honest reflection more than to perfectly recited talking points, and this human presence is what converts attention into trust.

In practical terms, the podcast recommends sharing stories and experiences that reveal not just your successes but also your learning process. When you talk about mistakes, doubts, and turning points, you signal to the audience that you understand their challenges from the inside and are not merely lecturing them from a distance. This kind of authenticity makes it easier for listeners to imagine themselves working with you, because they see you as relatable and grounded rather than distant or abstract.

The episode also points out that connection is built when you speak to the audience as individuals, not as a faceless mass. Even though podcasting is one-to-many, the listener’s experience is one-to-one: they have your voice in their ears, often while they are alone. By addressing them directly, using conversational language, and acknowledging the situations they might be in while listening, you make the interaction feel more intimate. This intimacy, combined with clear value, is what encourages people to follow your work beyond the episode.

Finally, the show underlines that real human connection is compatible with clear calls to action and business goals. Showing your personality, values, and genuine care for outcomes does not weaken your professional presence; it strengthens it. When you integrate your humanity with your expertise on air, you create a coherent picture of who you are, what you stand for, and how you can help—making it easier for the right listeners to decide that the next step you offer is one they want to take.

How can you turn podcast listeners into leads and next steps?

While the transcript excerpt focuses primarily on belief and connection, the underlying marketing implication discussed in the Nathalie Guest Shows episode is that every podcast appearance should be designed to move listeners toward a concrete next step. The hosts link the question of what the audience needs to think, feel, and believe directly to what they will do “after they listen to you,” whether that is visiting a website, downloading a resource, or initiating a purchase conversation. Guesting, in this view, is not only about visibility but about guiding a qualified subset of listeners into your ecosystem.

The episode suggests that turning listeners into leads starts with clarity: you must know what specific action you want them to take and why that action genuinely benefits them. With this clarity, you can select stories and examples that naturally point toward that action as the logical continuation of what they have just learned. For example, if your next step is a free assessment or audit, your stories might highlight how clarity from an assessment changed a client’s trajectory, making your invitation feel obviously useful rather than self-serving.

The podcast implies that repetition and consistency also matter. Since listeners may be multitasking, they might miss a single mention of your resource or URL. By softly weaving references to your framework, newsletter, or offer throughout the conversation, you increase the chances that they will remember where to go afterward. This does not mean turning the interview into an infomercial; it means aligning your examples and explanations with the pathway you want them to follow once the episode ends.

Ultimately, the episode frames conversion not as a separate step but as the natural outcome of a well-structured, human, and strategic interview. If you have thoughtfully shaped what listeners think, feel, and believe, and if you have connected with them as real people, then your invitation to take a next step is simply the final piece of a coherent, trust-building experience.

The Nathalie Guest Shows episode “Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107” presents podcast guesting as a strategic, human-centered way to shape beliefs, build connection, and move listeners toward meaningful next steps. By defining clear goals, planning what you need to say, focusing on what the audience must think and feel, and showing up as a real person, each interview can become a powerful marketing asset rather than a random appearance. For a fuller exploration of these ideas and to hear the conversation in context, listen to the complete episode at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/6y5jg0m2.

Key Takeaways

The Nathalie Guest Shows episode emphasizes that podcast guesting is most effective when treated as a strategic marketing channel with clear goals for every appearance, not as a random promotional opportunity.
In the episode, the hosts argue that for each podcast interview you should decide in advance what the audience needs to think, feel, and believe by the end in order to take the next step with you.
The podcast explains that many podcast guest appearances are not very good precisely because the guest has not clarified their core messages, stories, or desired outcomes before recording.
According to the episode, real human connection on podcasts comes from sharing honest stories, speaking in plain language, and relating to listeners as individuals rather than delivering a rigid pitch.
The episode frames conversion from listener to lead as the natural result of a well-planned interview that aligns stories, beliefs, and emotions with a specific, genuinely helpful call to action.
The conversation in Nathalie Guest Shows highlights that podcast interviews provide rare, uninterrupted time with a self-selected audience, making them ideal for building trust and explaining complex offers.

Key Definitions

Podcast guesting strategy: Podcast guesting strategy is the deliberate planning of which shows to appear on, what messages to share, and what next steps to promote so that podcast interviews directly support specific marketing and business goals.
Belief-shaping in marketing: Belief-shaping in marketing is the practice of designing messages and stories so that an audience finishes an interaction thinking, feeling, and believing what they need to in order to confidently take a next step such as subscribing or buying.
Human-centered podcast marketing: Human-centered podcast marketing is an approach to podcast guesting that prioritizes authentic stories, emotional resonance, and real human connection over polished scripts or hard-selling tactics.
Podcast call to action: Podcast call to action is the specific instruction or invitation a podcast guest or host gives listeners at the end or during an episode, guiding them toward a concrete next step such as visiting a page, downloading a resource, or booking a call.
Long-form audio authority building: Long-form audio authority building is the process of using extended podcast interviews to demonstrate expertise, share nuanced perspectives, and build trust with an audience over time.

Claims & Evidence

Claim

Many podcast guest appearances are ineffective because they are not strategically planned.

Evidence

In the episode, the speaker notes that “many of them are not very good” and ties this directly to the lack of clarity about what the guest needs to talk about and what outcome they want from the appearance.

Source: Episode transcript — host commentary on typical guest appearances - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025

Claim

Effective podcast guesting requires defining in advance what the audience must think, feel, and believe to take a next step.

Evidence

The transcript includes the guiding question, “What is the thing that the audience needs to think, to feel, to believe in order to, after they listen to you, to take whatever the next step is,” highlighting belief and emotion as intentional design elements.

Source: Episode transcript — host strategic framing question - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025

Claim

Real human presence is the foundation of meaningful connection on podcasts.

Evidence

The speaker explicitly states, “It’s real human. So that’s how we’re going to be able to connect,” framing authenticity and humanity as the primary drivers of connection with listeners.

Source: Episode transcript — host explanation of connection - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025

Claim

Strategic podcast guesting starts with asking what you need to make sure you talk about for each goal.

Evidence

The episode advises that “for every goal… it’s about being strategic about what do I need to make sure I talk about,” linking goal-setting directly to curated talking points.

Source: Episode transcript — host advice on preparation - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107" / published November 13, 2025

Key Questions Answered

Why should podcast guesting be part of my marketing strategy?

The Nathalie Guest Shows episode “Why Podcast Guesting Should Be Part Of Your Marketing Strategy with Nathalie Doremieux | 107” argues that podcast guesting belongs in your marketing mix because it gives you rare, uninterrupted time with a self-selected audience to shape beliefs, build trust, and invite a clear next step. Unlike short-form posts, long-form interviews let you explain your approach, share human stories, and address objections in depth. When each appearance is tied to a specific goal and call to action, podcast guesting becomes a repeatable way to turn attention into leads rather than just visibility. This makes it especially valuable for experts and service providers whose offers require explanation and trust.

How do I prepare what to say as a podcast guest?

Based on the guidance in the Nathalie Guest Shows episode, you should prepare for podcast guesting by first defining your goal for the appearance and then asking, “What do I need to make sure I talk about?” to support that goal. Choose a small set of core ideas you want listeners to remember, along with specific stories or examples that make those ideas concrete and relatable. Plan simple, jargon-free explanations of your work and practice weaving in mentions of your framework or lead magnet so your eventual call to action feels natural. This kind of preparation keeps the conversation authentic while ensuring you do not miss the points that matter most.

How can I use a podcast interview to move listeners to take action?

The episode recommends designing your podcast appearance around what the audience needs to think, feel, and believe by the end in order to take a specific next step, such as joining your list or booking a call. By reverse-engineering your stories and explanations from that desired outcome, you can show why the next step is logical and helpful rather than a random ask. Throughout the interview, you should gently reinforce your key ideas and reference your resource or framework so that your call to action feels like the natural continuation of the value you have just provided. When listeners both understand your message and feel emotionally aligned with it, they are far more likely to act.

What does it mean to shape what an audience thinks, feels, and believes on a podcast?

In the Nathalie Guest Shows episode, shaping what an audience thinks, feels, and believes means intentionally designing your messages so that, by the end of the interview, listeners hold the perspectives they need to genuinely benefit from your offer and be ready for a next step. Rather than only sharing information, you consider which misconceptions you must address, what emotions you want to evoke (such as relief or motivation), and which core belief must shift (for example, that their problem is solvable). You then choose stories and explanations that encourage those internal changes. This approach respects the audience’s autonomy while guiding them toward more empowered decisions.

How do I build real human connection as a podcast guest?

The episode asserts that real human connection on podcasts comes from showing up as “real human,” sharing honest stories, and addressing listeners as individuals, not just a faceless audience. Instead of hiding behind polished pitches, you talk about your experiences, including the challenges and lessons learned, which signals empathy and relatability. Using plain, conversational language and acknowledging where listeners might be in their journey helps the interview feel like a one-to-one conversation in their ears. This human presence, layered on top of clear value, is what turns a passive listener into someone who trusts you enough to take a next step.

What makes many podcast guest appearances ineffective?

According to the Nathalie Guest Shows episode, many podcast guest appearances are ineffective because they lack strategic intent and preparation, leading the speaker to admit that “many of them are not very good.” Guests often show up without defining a goal, clarifying what they need to talk about, or deciding on a next step for listeners, so the conversation drifts and does not support their business objectives. They may also rely on jargon or generic talking points that fail to resonate emotionally or practically with the audience. As a result, listeners leave with a vague impression rather than a clear understanding of the guest’s value or what to do next.

How can podcast guesting help service providers and SaaS founders?

The insights from this episode indicate that podcast guesting is particularly useful for service providers and SaaS founders because it gives them enough time to unpack complex offers and build trust around higher-commitment decisions. Long-form interviews let them explain why their solution matters, how it works in practice, and what results it creates, while also sharing human stories that make technical details relatable. When they plan each appearance around a specific goal and clear next step, podcast guesting becomes a pipeline for warm, educated leads rather than cold audiences. This makes it a high-leverage complement to shorter, less nuanced marketing channels.

How do I integrate podcast guesting into my overall marketing?

Drawing from the Nathalie Guest Shows discussion, you integrate podcast guesting into your marketing by treating each appearance as an on-ramp into your existing ecosystem, not a standalone event. For each interview, align your talking points and stories with a specific asset or path—such as a lead magnet, email sequence, or discovery call—so that listeners know exactly where to go next. Over time, you can repurpose interview content into social posts, emails, and website copy, creating a consistent message across channels. This turns individual episodes into long-lasting content assets that support your broader authority-building and lead-generation strategy.

What is a good call to action for podcast guests?

The episode implies that a good call to action for podcast guests is one that is specific, easy to follow, and clearly connected to the value just delivered in the interview, such as visiting a simple URL to access a relevant resource. Rather than offering multiple options, you pick a single next step that logically extends the conversation, like a checklist, training, or assessment related to the topic discussed. You then reference this resource naturally during the episode so that, by the time you state the call to action explicitly, it feels like the obvious way for interested listeners to go deeper. This intentional design makes it more likely that listeners will remember and act on your invitation.

Why is authenticity important in podcast marketing?

In the Nathalie Guest Shows episode, authenticity is positioned as non-negotiable for podcast marketing because “it’s real human” connection that enables listeners to trust and engage with you. When you present a polished but impersonal front, people may respect your knowledge but feel no emotional tie, making them less likely to act. By contrast, when you share real stories, speak plainly, and let your personality show, you align your expertise with humanity, which is what listeners respond to in the intimate medium of audio. This authenticity differentiates you from generic guests and transforms interviews into genuine relationships.

Full Episode Transcript

Speaker A: Have you ever wondered what the benefits of podcast guesting might be? In this episode we are talking about how podcast guesting can support your business goals. You'll learn why being a podcast guest is so valuable, the importance of having a podcast guesting strategy, and how you can find podcasts to guest on and stick around right to the end so you can learn how to get the most value out of your podcast guest appearances. Welcome to Architecture Business Club, the show that helps you build a better business in architecture so you can enjoy more freedom, flexibility and fulfillment in what you do. If you're joining us for the first time, don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button so you never miss another episode. We're joined by Natalie Doramieu, a membership and tech strategist with over 10 years experience helping coaches and course creators design high retention programs that drive real results. In 2025, she co created Podcast Lead Flow, a tool that turns podcast episodes into high quality lead magnets. Using smart automations and AI. Natalie's work blends strategy, tech and a human first approach with a dash of French flair. Head to podcastleadflow.com for where you'll find a tool to help you take the next step. After listening to this episode, we're going to be talking about podcast guesting and specifically how podcast guesting can support your business goals. So I think a good place to start is why be a podcast guest in the first place? Like why be a podcast guest? Speaker B: Well, first I think that podcasting in general, right, Just because we get to hear people's voice, right? And sometimes now more and more seeing them, you know, on YouTube, through videos, it's so much easier to connect and convey really what we want to say, but also like who we are. I think it's an accelerator compared to reading something right? So just podcasting in general is a great way to build that relationship quicker I think with your audience. Now, why being a guest is a great strategy is because you don't have to manage your podcast right and manage all of these things. You can just show up now. It's a great strategy when you are strategic about how you choose the podcast you want to be on, right? So that's why we'll talk about strategy. But it's just a great way to get some visibility in front of people that don't know you yet, right? Where you get to really express your expertise, but also where people can feel your values, your mission, right? Which is all that basically helps connect with people and build that trust. Speaker A: And building trust is so important, really. I mean, it's fundamental, isn't it? And as you say, podcasting and podcast guesting is just a great way to do that. That when you, you hear somebody's voice or, or you get to see them on a video, it does help to build trust so much quicker than them just reading something. Like just reading your about page on your website, perhaps. So, yeah, absolutely. Completely agree with you there on that. That, yeah, it's fantastic way to build trust. I think as well, there was, I think I mentioned this in a recent episode already, but there was this quote from, I think it was Bob Berg that like, all things being equal, people will choose to do business with people that they know like and trust. And yeah, podcasting is just one of the best ways to build that trust with people. For sure. Speaker B: Absolutely. Speaker A: Cool. Okay, so there's definitely some compelling reasons there. And particularly in relation to business, you know that trust building is very important. So, you know, definitely there's, there's some great reasons to be a podcast guest. But you mentioned there about strategy as well. So I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on why it's so important to have a strategy. Is it not just good enough just to turn up and talk on any podcast about anything? Why do we need a strategy for this? Speaker B: Well, I guess you need a strategy if you have a purpose, if you have a specific goal for why you're podcasting, why your podcast guesting, right? If you just go on podcast because you just love to talk, then you can basically go on any podcast, right? But if you have a specific goal, like wanting to connect with your ideal audience who might be interested to work with you in the future, then you need a strategy, right. To figure out who are these podcasts that I, I want to try to be on. Right. But also why do these people need to hear from me in the episode? Like you were saying, you know, we have to build trust. So it's not going to be buy my stuff, work with me. Here is my program, here is a link for you to sign up. Right? We are connecting with people through podcasting. We are not selling. The selling happens later on, you know, in the nurturing. Right. So it's really focusing on what is just that next step. And that's where the strategy comes in. And then you can come up with a plan of action, like, then what do I need to do? But like coming up with a plan. If you don't have a strategy, basically, you're really not likely to get the results, you know, that you're looking for. Speaker A: Okay, so it's joining the dots between what are your objectives and if this is a business goal or it is forming part of your business strategy, join in the dots between that and then where and how you need to be showing up on podcasts. So, you know, absolutely. You could go, if you like to talk, you could go and talk on all sorts of podcasts about all sorts of different things. But even though that advantage you mentioned about podcast guesting, you don't have the investment of time and money to in setting up and running and producing and publishing the show. But you do still have to invest time in showing up. You do still have to take part in those sessions. And most small business owners are time poor these days. You know, a lot of people are very busy. So it makes sense, doesn't it then, to have a strategy to make sure that there's that alignment between showing up, why you're showing up, what you're talking about, and, you know, the alignment with your business goals. Could we dig into that a bit more then? I'd be interested to know what things we should consider specifically when it comes to podcast guest strategy before we, before we start applying to be a guest on podcasts. You know, what are some of the things that we might want to be thinking about as part of that strategy work? Speaker B: So, so like I was mentioning, you know, you want to get clear on why are you podcast guesting? Are you podcast guesting for visibility? Like, do you want to be seen? Are you looking for partners? So you want to be seen as an expert, as an authority, if that is the case, you want to go and be interviewed in those podcasts where they are already interviewing people at that level because you want to be seen, you know, in that circle. Right. On the contrary, if you're podcasting with like a specific, like, business purpose, like building an audience, building your list, right. Then you might consider, you know, reaching out to podcasts that talk about the expertise that you have. But maybe where you're complimentary, right, because there could be also opportunities, you know, for partnerships. So. And there can be more than one reason, more than one goal, Right? But for every goal, like I said earlier, it's about being strategic about what do I need to make sure I talk about? Like, what would make people think, oh, she knows her stuff, right? It sounds like these are her values. Which, again, with podcasting, we can feel the emotion so much more than in writing. Right. Sometimes I read something and I don't know if the person is hungry or excited. You know, you're not exactly sure we can tell. We can see when people are funny, you know, we can see when people, you know, like sometimes trip on their words or if everything is like, you're basically reading from a strict or a script or you're okay to go free flow. And I think those are all things that help us get to know people. So you want to, I call it, like, do your homework. It's like figure out what is that idea audience, what do they need to see from you, what kind of level of energy you need to show up with. Right. Because it's contagious with the host, with the listener. Right. That will make the right person say, with that person, I need to start following her. I'm going to go in and, and follow our next step and see where that leads me. Speaker A: Okay, so, so part of this is understanding who is it? Like who is the person, the audience that you want to get in front of and then thinking about another part of this you mentioned is what is it like, what is the thing that they need to hear? How, how do you want to make them feel when they hear your voice and when they, they see you? If it's a video based show. So yeah, thinking that that can help inform the content, then, so who is it that we're trying to appeal to and what is it? What are the stories or the things that we want, we want them to hear from us? Like, how do we want them to feel when they, they hear us or see us? You know, what are they? The things that would make sense to share with them. Yeah, that's, that's really good. Yeah. And then I guess then it's thinking that if you've identified the audience and you thought about the message and the stories, the things that you're going to share, then it's thinking about. So which podcasts already have this audience? So now you know, where do I go, like, which podcast should I apply to speak on? Because that is, there's an alignment between the audience that I want to get in front of and the message that I have to share. Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. So it's a bit of work, but I think it's quality over quantity. So if you've never been a guest before and you want to try it out, there are podcasts that are looking for guests. You can be a guest on a podcast like this. Do they have your audience? No. But it could be a way for you to test the water and see how it feels. Right. If you don't want to, you know, go on the big ones you know, like right away. But another big element, which is something you did really, really well, John, by the way, is the connection you make with the host. There are several things that you did that I'll mention that are really, really important. The first one is that we connected before. So, I mean, we've met before in. Was it Manchester? I can't remember. Speaker A: I think it was in New York. Newcastle. Speaker B: Newcastle. In Newcastle. Right. So we knew each other, but we had a call to connect. We had a call to talk about what value do we want to bring to these people? Okay. Then we came up with questions. And those questions. Remember when I said the bullet point? What do I want people to hear? This is exactly what we are doing right now in this episode. Right? And so it's important to have that connection. Another thing that you did is you press record four minutes before we started. That means that we were in the flow, right? And then at some point you say, okay, now we're going to do a silence and we don't get started. And that puts me in a much more comfortable position than when somebody say, okay, ready? I'm going to press record. And then you're like making this space and you're like, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying it's those little things that you did that really help people, you know, like, feel really comfortable. And we can tell that you've been doing this for a while and you want people to be at ease. Right? But we, you know, we worked on this, right? We worked on the questions and what, you know, what we were going to. How we're going to deliver value in this amount of time. So I think there is work that needs to be done. It's not a. Send an email. That one sounds good. Can I be a guest? Yes. No. Right. Because people get so many requests. The one that are going to stand out are really the ones that really come from somebody that's genuinely interested in bringing value. And for that, that means they have listened to some episodes. Speaker A: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I receive a lot of pitches from prospective guest speakers for this show. And to be quite honest, many of them are not very good. Occasionally there's. There's something that comes through that really does stand out. And you can tell, like, straight away that there's just that little bit of effort. And I'm not even saying it takes too much effort. Like just the fact that somebody genuinely seems like a good fit for the show that they're applying for and that they appear to have gone to the effort to at the very least have listened to the trailer, maybe checked out an episode or two and that you can tell very, very quickly if somebody is just spamming tons of shows or they're using like chat GPT to write the email or like. It's quite common as well because. Because a lot of business owners recognize how valuable podcast guesting is. There are many people that invest. Rather than investing in their own show, they invest in agencies to. They'll pay an agency to help them find guest opportunities. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: A.B. and again, they do vary in quality. I've had some, well, many that aren't very good, but occasionally they. I get a really, really good pitch through an agency. It's not often, but I, I always feed that back to them that when I then have the conversation with the guest, I say, you found a really good person to work with there that's securing these interviews. Because you know that that pitch that came through was like 10 out of 10 compared to most of the others that aren't. Aren't so good really. But yeah, I mean, that's something we should probably talk about next, really, isn't it? That I think how, how we find podcast to guests on. I mean, I've mentioned one way there where you, you pay a chunk of money to somebody else to do the work to find it for you, but it's. If you don't have the budget to do that, how else can we go about finding what shows to guest on? Speaker B: Like many things in business, tapping into your network and where, you know, just to ask. Because these people remember, they already know you and they're like, hey, I'm looking for podcasts. What you, what are you guys listening to? I'm looking for podcasts that have this type of audience where I can talk about this, you know, and they kind of know usually what your expertise is and what you're about. That's the first step is really to really ask around. You also want to be curious and you want to do your own research. There is nothing wrong with using ChatGPT for that, actually. Even Claude, which is better for research to get you a list of podcasts that you can start to go and listen to. You can, you know, if you have groups, if you have a community, then you can also post, you know, on social media and ask people, you know, like, what is a good podcast around this or that that you enjoy listening to? Right. It takes a bit of homework, you know, definitely. Another thing you can do, which is something that I have done, is to when you know someone in your. In your area of expertise and you know, they're getting interviewed on podcast, look for them, you know, do a search and find out what podcast they guested on and see if it makes sense. You know, say, you know, I can come in with a different approach, Right. You can listen to the episode and say, you know, like, I know this was the end goal. You know, I'm more like this way. And like, is that something you feel your audience might be interested in? So it's about, like being strategic, you know, with who you know, whether they are your peers, your competitors, but also your network, you know, and just, you know, tapping into, you know, all that knowledge. Speaker A: Yeah, I like that you've mentioned that first that the looking at your own network, as you say, that most of us will have a network of some kind. You know, we'll have. Might vary in size depending on who you are. Um, well, that is a great place to start because you might already have. You might already have people that you're connected with that are podcast hosts that have their own show. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: And so that's a great place to start if you already connected. You also mentioned that you might have connections there that maybe they've guested on another show and that could be a good way to get potentially an introduction, because if they have, then there are past guests of that show. That might be a way to. To get an introduction made, to get a foot in the door with that host. So I think that would be another good way to do it. And as you say, the other thing you mentioned research, so you can go to. You mentioned chat GPT, Claude. Absolutely. Those tools are great for research or even just. Even just opening your podcast app on your phone like you. There are, I mean, there's also kind of paid for platforms that you can use to research podcasts. But if you're trying to do things free or on a budget, then, yeah, just opening up like Apple Podcasts or Spotify and type in a few keywords and search terms related to the types of topics that you want to talk about. And that could be a good way to just discover a few shows. Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Speaker A: Yeah. So there's definitely a few options there for people. So when it comes to what to talk about. So if we've had it, we find some shows and we've already thought a little bit about the strategy, you know, that may give us some ideas and thoughts about the type of things we should be sharing. But do you have any suggestions for the types of things that we could talk about, you know, and I appreciate that this is, I would say, keeping our audience in mind, that we have a lot of people listening that are from an architecture background. So, you know, architects, architecture technologists, interior designers. So people that are in around the world of design and property. Do you have any suggestions or thoughts for them on any ideas for what they could talk about? Speaker B: Yeah. So I think again, thinking with the end in mind, right. Thinking of what do I know, what do I believe in? Right. What story can I share that will make my ideal client or partner want to know more about me and connect? It's not necessarily expertise. A tip. It's not necessarily that, but it's maybe your way of working, right? I think one way to look at this, for this to be generic and work with anyone, is pick two or three ideal clients or partners that you have, right. How did you connect? What made them think, oh, I like this person, you know, let's connect. Is it a story about how you started the business? Is it a specific way you're working with people? Do you have a method, a system? Right. Is it because you're like, you're very funny. I don't know. You know, like, is there something that people. When people. People talk about you, what do they say? And that's what you want to have people feel in the episode. It's not when people don't know you. And that's a mistake that a lot of people make in podcasting and I have made it is that they don't know me. I want them to see me as the expert. Therefore, I'm going to be very. Here is all that I know that is feeding our ego. Like, oh, look at all that I know. But these people, they haven't connected yet. So to them, it's like, okay, she knows all this stuff, but what is that doing to me? People are going to do business with people at the end, always, right? So it's that trust and that connection. Speaker A: Have you got an interesting story about running your architecture practice? Have you done something different? Different in your business that's been hugely successful, or has a failure taught you an important lesson that you'd be willing to share? Then why not apply to be a guest on this podcast? Just click the link in the show notes to send us your details and get started today. And if you're joining us for the first time, don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button so you never miss another episode. Now let's get back to the show. That's really interesting, actually. That you mentioned about maybe a preconception, like a preconceived idea that we have to show up as an expert, like, if we're going on a podcast and that, oh, well, it's. If I'm going to go on this video interview, show this podcast and I'm going to talk, oh, I. I have to be this, like, expert. And a lot of people are quite uncomfortable with that label. I know that there are some people that are maybe, maybe some out there that have a bigger ego that are absolutely fine with people calling them an expert or thinking them that way, but there are a lot of people that are uncomfortable with that. And also I think as well that there are a lot of people that they may question what they have to offer in terms of, like, what to talk about. Because it, you know, I think that when you're so close to what you do, you can end up. You take it for granted that it's just like, well, who's going to be interested in this? Like, this thing that I do, like, who's going to be interested in this? So I think that's another myth that people love to see behind the curtain. They love to see and learn about somebody that's not worked with an architect before. They would be fascinated to understand more. Most people would be interested in that, in learning more about a career that they, you know, don't know much about, you know. So I think there is an opportunity there. And you also mentioned there about ways of working. You mentioned that that was something worth mentioning. And again, I would challenge a myth that I think a lot of people will have in their mind of, well, will I just do the same as any other architect or any other interior designer. That is not true. You might follow a, you know, rough approximation of the. The same route on a project that they'll go through similar work stages. But your individual way of working, like, how you work and, like, you know, you as a person, like, that's going to be so unique. Like, you're. Your personality, your approach, the way that you deal with people, the way that you communicate, like, all of those things will give the customer a different experience if and when they do decide to work with you, that's going to be completely different experience for them than working with the architects down the road. So there is absolutely stuff that you can share. Like, anybody that's listening to this episode now, there will be unique things that they can share. And I think also you mentioned, like, stories, Speaker B: stories and why we do things, why we do things. You know, people buy why we do things more than the thing itself. Right. And especially when, at the beginning of the relationship, when we are connecting and learning about the person, this is what gets people curious about wanting to learn more. Speaker A: That's such a good point. Because I think from a customer's point of view that there's almost going to be like this. This expectation that, well, anybody that has got this certain level of qualification and experience and professionalism, like there could be a variety of companies that. That are all can offer a similar type of service. It kind of goes without saying that unless you're really, really unlucky and you pick a really terrible company, that there's almost just an acceptance already that the standard is going to be good enough for what they need. So what is the thing that then differentiates you so that they choose you over all those others? And that thing about that you mentioned there about your. Why so your beliefs, your working methods and processes that are individual to you, your values, your stories, like, those are all the things that you can get across in a podcast interview as a guest without having to spend any money on setting up your own show. Just doing a little bit of legwork with the strategy. That's all of the stuff that's going to help people think. That's my. That's my kind of person. That's that I'm listening to there on that show. And. And that's the person that we should reach out and contact. Speaker B: Yeah, but exactly that. You know, like, I'll just add one quick thing. I noticed something. I mean, that was like a while ago, but I always wondered, you know, when you. When you follow those big launches and then, you know, three, you know, the. Remember the time, the three video series, and you were like, oh, my gosh, when do they get to the point they keep talking about themselves and where they come from, from and why they do that. It's like, I just want the thing, right? But the big difference is that I already knew the person. So to me, that was like, okay, he's going to show me his family, how he adopted his kids and stuff like that. It's like, I know that already, but to somebody that is completely new, he built a connection with the person, even about talking about his own expertise, right? And I understood, you know, now I understand that a lot better of what he was doing. It was building rapport, right? It was really building that trust and that connection so that people were like, that sounds like a good guy. I share these values. You know, let me continue and hear him about what maybe he can help me with. Speaker A: That's such, such a good example when you're thinking about what things to share. And we've, we've discussed and shared all sorts of examples of the types of things that people could talk about. I would be thinking about what, what is like reverse engineer it from the next step that we want people to take. And you already mentioned, Natalie, that we're not, we're not trying to sell in a podcast interview. We are, you know, it's an opportunity for us to do something that's aligned with our goals, whether that's raising visibility, building trust, and all of those things. But what, what is the thing that the audience needs to, to think, to feel, to believe in order to, after they listen to you, to take whatever the next step is. So what is the thing that we need them to believe, to take that next step? After listening to the conversation on that podcast interview, that was my thought. How can we get more value out of these podcast guest opportunities? Speaker B: Yes. Speaker A: How can we do that? Because, you know, it is a great opportunity. But often what I've seen happen is that, and I've done this myself, I've been guilty of this, that be invited to be a guest on a podcast interview, and then I'll go and do the recording and then that's kind of it. And then I don't really, really do much else afterwards. I'm then relying on the host of that show to, to promote the episode, to get it out there. How can we squeeze more juice out of this opportunity? Speaker B: Yeah, I, I love what you share because that's, that's, that's the p. That's the piece that makes the strategy work if you don't do that piece. So we talked about the before, right before the episode, before the recording. Right. We meet with the host, all that stuff, select the right podcast to be guest on. There is the during when you show up. We kind of talked about that. And there is the after. And the beauty is that with the after, I mean, the publishing is just the beginning. When you think about it, the publishing is just the beginning. Before that, nobody knows anything about what you guys just did. Right. So that third phase, the after, is where you have control over what happens next. So, yes, the host is going to share, but the host is going to share to their network. So you're going to get that visibility, but then it's for you to have a very clear call to action that we already mentioned at the beginning. Right, Right. So for me, that's going to be this tool that you can [email protected] John and that's going to be a tool to help you implement, get the next step from our conversation today, okay. And that call to action in that episode is something that you want to repurpose once it's published. So the host is going to share it on his end. That's great. But for you now you've created an asset, right, that you can use like a lead magnet, like a lead generation, you know, system where that you can share social media with your networks, that you can share with your list as well, which is something people sometimes don't think about, but as a nurturing asset for people that are already on your list, you know, in your network, but they haven't taken the step to work with you. It's an extra piece of value that you can share with them, right. That can get people sometimes to book the call or do that next step, right? So it's what you do after the strategy really starts, I would say, when, when you're going to repurpose it, right, what you're going to do with it. So what some people do is like when we do a recording like that, they will take some snippets. There are most event that send you four, five short videos for you to share and things like that. So that's part of the strategy. The strategy of the after is really the one where you're going to get more of an ongoing value. The publishing the host is going to do that's going to be like for one week, right. And then the host is on to the next episode, right? But for you now you have this asset, this powerful asset that you can keep reusing. Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It is. When you think about it, it's such a great opportunity, isn't it? I mean, I know I mentioned I get a lot of pitches already, but I'm surprised that I don't get ball. I just think that there's a lot of people that are not aware what a good opportunity podcast guesting is. And essentially what you're getting is you get a really high value evergreen piece of content that you can, you know, you can embed it in your website, you can be sharing it, you can share it more than once. It's not kind of a once and done thing where. Because that's a classic thing. And again, I'm definitely guilty of this as a content creator that we create this content and then we spend nowhere near enough time promoting it. And when you have a bank of valuable evergreen content, which absolutely you could build up a really valuable bank of content for your business that was basically a playlist of podcast guest appearances. And you could keep sharing that again and again and again. Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And you should, because when you have a piece of content that you know speaks directly to the person you're trying to connect with, why not reshare it? People might think that people see everything that we post, and they absolutely don't. Right. So repurposing and sharing again and again and again. Actually, you know, people that. That create lots of content. They will track what engages and what doesn't, what doesn't get scratched. But what engages, they're like, let's put it back in the. In the bag where we can repurpose it. So every time you're a guest on an episode and you know it speaks directly to your audience, that's an asset you've created. Just like when you create a lead magnet, that's something that. It's just the beginning. It's repurposing. And like you said, having it on a platform that you have control over, that means where people can see your phone and things like that and treat it. Please treat it as a lead magnet. Don't just put the link in the middle of your show notes where they can click on 10 different other things because it won't convert. Right. So you can have your show notes. It's great for SEO and all that stuff, but you also need to have it on a page and really treat that as a lead magnet, where the only thing they can do is that next step. That's really how you can, you know, increase those conversions. Speaker A: That's such a good idea. Natalie, what would be the. The main thing that you would like people to take away from our conversation? Speaker B: I think that a lot of people that are not podcasting are not doing so. So because they're not sure of what it can bring to the business. I mean, when you think about it, all people talk about is downloads. Downloads is not equal clients. Downloads is not equal money. Unless you're looking for sponsors. Downloads don't matter if it's not the right person that's listening. I think it's an amazing medium because it has the voice. And now very often we have the video to accelerate the connection. Forget people to know us as humans, especially with AI being everywhere here. It's real human. It's us. It's not our avatar. It's an amazing opportunity if you are someone who likes to talk to people and connect with people, with guests and share your story, share how you work with people, share why you love what you're doing, share the mistakes that you've made. People want to see that. Sometimes we make mistakes, sometimes we failed more than once. Right. And we are okay to share that. So I think that's my message, is that it's probably the quickest way to connect with someone. If you have a strategy. If you don't have a strategy and you just rely on the host to find you, to promote you, then you're really missing out on a big piece of what podcasting is about. Speaker A: Is there anything else you wanted to add that we haven't already covered? Speaker B: I think that if you've never tried podcasting, you need to try it at least once, because you never know what's going to happen. I know starting your own podcast can feel daunting, but I can tell you, a lot of people that think it's a lot of work is also the people that are not seeing what it does to the business. They're spending time and money, and they have a business that's running, and they don't know exactly what the podcast does to the business, so they keep doing it. The minute you start to get the metrics that say, oh, my gosh, when I do this, I get this. That's a motivator. Right. So you should be excited about being a guest or having a podcast. It should not feel like a wait. Speaker A: That's. That's a great thought. I think podcast guesting as well, it's a nice gateway to podcasting generally, that it gives people an opportunity to try or taste podcasting, being. Being on a podcast without the. The. The commitment of launching your own show. So for anyone who's curious about podcasting, I think podcast guesting can be a really great place to start. Speaker B: Absolutely. I remember, like, years ago, that was pre Covid, I. I had a conversation with John Lee Dumas. You know, the podcasting. Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Speaker B: I was in London, and he was asking me, like, do you have a podcast? And like, no, I don't have a podcast. He's like, why? Say, well, I said, well, I. You know, I was. It was about memberships, you know, the membership offers. And I was like, well, I'm. I'm afraid to run out of things to say. And you say, why don't you do a season? Can you commit to doing a season? Set number of episodes? That's it. I said, yes, that I can do. And I did. I got hundred episodes, and actually then I added more. 100. Like 47. I did. Speaker A: Wow. Speaker B: That's what got me started. Like, it kind of like gave me permission to say, you don't have to do this forever. It can be seasons. So that's one more thing. If you're, like, worried, like, am I going to run out of things to say, well, you can do seasons X number of episodes and see how that goes. Speaker A: I would encourage anybody to give it a try, for sure. Speaker B: Yeah. Speaker A: I've thoroughly enjoyed my podcasting experience so far over the last couple of years. Yeah. So I definitely would recommend that people try it. Yeah, everybody should try it at least once, as you say. Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I mean, in guesting, it's like, it's something you have to do once. You might just discover that this is something that, well, you. Helps you share things that you might not share in writing. We all have our different ways of communicating. I think it's definitely a strategy that at least guest posting. Posting, guest appearing, you know, is. Is. It's a lot easier, right, to test than a podcast, than creating your own podcast. So definitely needs to be something you test. Speaker A: Right. So that's it, everyone. You've heard it from us. You need to go and give it a try. If people would like to connect with you, where is the best place to connect with you? Online? Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So they can go to podcastleadflow.com John. Right. Speaker A: Yeah. Speaker B: So that's where we're going to have that tool that is going to give you some advice or some tips on what could be your next step. Right. So it's going to ask you a couple of questions. It's powered by AI, it's podcast lead flow, and it's going to guide you there. So that's how we're going to be able to connect.