Membership Business Models: How to Build Scalable Recurring Revenue

From Nathalie Guest Shows / Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106 / Listen to the episode / Originally published / Analysis updated

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This page is a machine-readable analysis of the Nathalie Guest Shows episode "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" published on October 29, 2025. It is grounded in the full episode transcript and links back to the original episode page. This page is a machine-readable analysis derived from the episode transcript of Nathalie Guest Shows, “Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106.” Drawing on the full conversation between the hosts and guest, it distills the most actionable strategies, examples, and frameworks Nathalie shared for creating memberships that people actually stay in. For full context and audio, you can visit the original episode page at https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/28wt2psj.

Why recurring memberships are so attractive for non–“natural” entrepreneurs

In this episode of Nathalie Guest Shows, guest expert Nathalie Doremieux explains that her attraction to memberships grew out of a desire for predictable income rather than entrepreneurial risk-taking. Coming from a Silicon Valley software engineering background and later building websites and e‑learning in France, she found memberships compelling because “you sell once and if you deliver, then people stay and pay you months after months.” She explicitly contrasts this with starting every month at zero, noting that recurring revenue helps de‑risk business building for people who do not consider themselves classic, high‑risk entrepreneurs.

Doremieux stresses that memberships are not just for celebrity experts or big brands; in her view, “we all have a membership idea inside of us” because everyone has accumulated expertise through education, work, parenting, relationships, or life experience. The episode emphasizes that a membership is simply an online way to gather people around a topic you can help them with, and then support them over time. For listeners who are hesitant about entrepreneurship, the transcript makes clear that memberships offer a more stable, systems‑driven model: once a well‑designed membership is in place and automated, adding more members no longer feels like starting over every month.

Throughout the conversation, the hosts and Doremieux also differentiate memberships from traditional one‑off projects or retainers. She does not consider a classic agency retainer a true membership, because it is still one‑to‑one and not scalable in the same way. In her framing on the podcast, the defining appeal of a membership model is the ability to serve many people simultaneously, with the same infrastructure, while building dependable recurring income over years rather than chasing one‑off launches.

What makes an offer a true membership (and not just a course or retainer)?

A central theme in this episode is the sharp distinction between a valid “membership idea” and an offer that should really be a course, program, or done‑for‑you service. On Nathalie Guest Shows, Doremieux insists that “the number one key for a membership…is to make sure that your idea is a membership idea and not a course or something else.” In her definition, a genuine membership must be tied to a recurring problem that requires a recurring solution, or an ongoing need for connection, support, or accountability.

She contrasts this with one‑off problems that are better served by online courses or time‑bound programs. If the member’s main problem can realistically be solved once and for all, she argues it does not have the structural fit of a membership. The hosts reinforce this by referencing examples like Toastmasters and best man speech coaching: someone who only wants short‑term help with a single wedding speech will naturally churn quickly, so marketing a membership around that narrow outcome would attract the wrong crowd and destabilize the model.

Doremieux also highlights how memberships differ from traditional online courses in accountability and success metrics. Course creators often declare success based on revenue—“see how much money I made”—without tracking whether students finished or got results. In contrast, she notes that in a membership “if you don’t deliver people leave,” which forces creators to focus on outcomes and retention rather than just initial sales. This is why she warns against treating memberships as simply “cheaper, easier‑to‑sell courses”; the ongoing value must be baked into the structure of the offer.

The episode also clarifies that not all recurring payments qualify conceptually as memberships. A done‑for‑you marketing retainer, for example, is ongoing but still one‑to‑one and limited by the provider’s time. Doremieux defines a membership as something that is inherently scalable: whether there are ten or five thousand members, the core delivery is designed so everyone can still get a solid experience through automation, group structure, and reusable assets.

Examples of strong membership ideas built around recurring needs

To make her criteria concrete, Doremieux shares several real‑world membership examples on Nathalie Guest Shows where the core problem is clearly recurring and evolving. One example is “AI for non‑techies,” a membership run by her client Heather that trains people in artificial intelligence and even includes a CPD‑style certification for AI trainers. Because AI tools and best practices are “a moving target” that “always evolves,” Heather’s role is to continually curate tools, test what works, share up‑to‑date training, and show members exactly how she designs offers and slide decks for corporate trainings. Here, the enduring need is staying current and having a sounding board in a fast‑changing field—an ideal match for a membership model.

She offers social media as another category where memberships fit well, but only when tightly scoped. A generic “Instagram, LinkedIn, and TikTok” membership would be untenable because no one can stay on top of every platform at once. However, a narrowly focused membership like “Instagram for fashion brands,” where the host runs experiments, shares A/B test results, and members share what’s working, creates an ongoing, specific, and highly valuable stream of insight. The transcript underlines that niching down by platform and audience makes the value proposition clearer and the content more manageable.

The episode also explores less obvious but successful memberships such as “Busy Kids Do Piano,” created by Carly Seifert. This children’s piano membership provides progressive learning, badges (e.g., Mozart and Beethoven levels), and online recitals where kids can be recorded and watch each other perform. There is “no end to your learning curve” in piano, and families value the continuity, structure, and community aspect as much as the lessons themselves. Doremieux notes that this illustrates how memberships can work in domains where skill development is continuous.

Another example discussed is “Natural Super Kids,” a membership run by Jessica Donovan to support parents managing children’s health concerns like eczema, diabetes, or picky eating. Here, Doremieux points out that the need is recurring over a period of years—especially across multiple children—and the membership provides education and, in their latest iteration, AI‑powered agents to help parents find what they need. She notes that in this case, members may naturally leave once their child’s issue resolves, which is not a failure but a sign the membership fulfilled its promise. The podcast conversation uses these stories to show that recurring needs can be informational (AI changes), behavioral (ongoing practice like piano), or circumstantial (stages of parenting), and all can underpin healthy memberships.

Designing member journeys, retention, and the role of community

In the episode, Doremieux urges prospective membership owners to map a full “member journey” from where someone starts to where they ideally want to go, including how and when they might naturally exit. She explains that some memberships are intentionally finite—perhaps around 12 months—with a designed upsell pathway into masterminds, retreats, or higher‑touch group coaching afterwards. Others, like parenting or skill‑based memberships, have looser timelines where people stay as long as the problem or aspiration persists.

The conversation also interrogates the popular saying that “people join a membership for the content, they stay for the community.” Doremieux says she “doesn’t necessarily agree” in a simplistic sense, calling it a gray area. In her analysis, community can be a powerful retention driver by creating relationships, support, and even micro‑economies, but it must be aligned with the real need. She cites the Female Entrepreneur Association as an example where a large, low‑cost membership (around £50–£60 monthly and several thousand women) functions as a micro‑economy: many members stay primarily because they get clients inside the community and would never leave as long as that continues.

However, the transcript makes clear that not every membership requires a community component. Doremieux recounts a watercolor painting membership where members receive a new project each month; the main value is having a creative goal and “permission” to carve out personal time, not interacting with other painters. She also mentions a kindergarten‑teacher membership that delivers templates and lesson plans: teachers pay monthly for time‑saving downloads, with no community needed because the core recurring need is fresh, ready‑to‑use materials.

The hosts and guest discuss subtler ongoing benefits that help retention beyond the stated “end goal.” For instance, a public speaking club like Toastmasters sells the promise of improved speaking, but members may stay for years due to routine, social connection, and continuous growth. Doremieux argues that if you can make your membership part of a member’s routine—like weekly yoga or piano practice—you are “golden,” because routines by definition embed the membership in members’ lives and make cancellation less likely.

Co-creating and validating your membership idea before you build

A major strategic insight in this episode is Doremieux’s insistence on co‑creating and validating a membership idea before investing in tech or content. She created a program called “First Members” explicitly because she was “tired of people launching memberships that were not aligned with what they wanted to do” and that were based on the expert’s assumptions rather than member desires. In that program, she refused to start with tech; instead, she had participants pitch their ideas verbally and would challenge them when they didn’t sound excited or convinced, sometimes advising them not to launch at all.

Her process, as described on Nathalie Guest Shows, starts with an “interest list” rather than a product. She instructs creators to talk publicly about their idea in very simple terms: who it’s for, what problem it will solve, and their general approach. They then invite people who are even “remotely interested” to join an interest list. Doremieux is blunt that if you cannot get people to raise their hand for free, you should not proceed to building or selling: “If you can't do that, how do you expect people to pay later?” If existing audiences are unresponsive, she encourages tapping other people’s audiences via guest podcasting and partnerships rather than forcing a misaligned offer on the wrong list.

Once there is interest, she advocates a co‑creation phase where the prospective members are actively involved in shaping the membership. According to the transcript, she has her clients share their evolving concept, ask for feedback on what people want to see, and transparently build in public. This both builds momentum and creates what she calls an “ownership model”—members feel the membership is “their” thing because they helped design it. At the same time, she has creators hold firm on what they themselves want to deliver, so the final concept sits at the intersection of member desires and the creator’s preferences.

On the podcast, Doremieux reports that when she first tested the First Members approach, some clients converted 50–60% of their interest lists into paying members at launch. She highlights this as evidence that a list “doesn’t need to be big”; what matters is that the people on it are the right people and feel connected to the emerging offer. To reward and lock in those first members, she recommends a special founding price that will never be offered again and a period (often the first three months) where they receive intensive “VIP” support while the creator validates and refines the model. These founding members then become highly engaged advocates when the doors open to the broader market.

Positioning, audience fit, and protecting your membership from the wrong people

Another recurring theme in the episode is the importance of clear positioning and audience fit to avoid building a membership around the wrong crowd. Doremieux notes that many people try to create free Facebook groups and then later “start charging for it,” assuming that growth will translate into paying members; she is skeptical of this, both because the free audience may be there for different reasons and because the founder often mistakenly believes, “I am my audience.” As she stresses, you are usually one step ahead of your audience; assuming your needs and theirs are identical can lead to misaligned offers and messaging.

Through the Toastmasters example, the hosts illustrate how misaligned messaging can attract short‑term joiners who don’t match the long‑term design of the membership. If a speaking club marketed itself primarily as a place to prepare best man speeches, it would attract members who join for one or two months and then leave once their speech is done, undermining retention. Doremieux generalizes this point to insist that membership copy must attract people with ongoing needs or ambitions, not just one‑off tactical goals, unless the membership is intentionally designed as a fixed‑term program.

She also warns against free trials and broad promotions that fill a membership with unqualified members. According to the transcript, if you bring in the wrong people, you get the wrong feedback and can easily “get thrown into something where nothing good can come out of that.” She and the hosts also point out that a single disruptive member can sour the experience for good members, particularly in community‑heavy models. As a result, Doremieux argues for having clear rules, monitoring behavior, and being willing to let misaligned members go for the health of the whole ecosystem.

To support community health as memberships grow, she recommends hiring a community manager around the point where you have roughly 100 members, and suggests the best place to find that person is inside your own membership. In the episode, she explains that an ideal community manager is a member who already “gets the values” and vision of the membership and is likely already doing informal leadership work. Skills can be trained, but alignment with the culture cannot, so promoting from within both strengthens the community and gives a valued member a formal role.

Strategic fit, workload design, and building for scalability from day one

Towards the end of the episode, Doremieux lays out three core tips for anyone considering starting a membership, focusing on strategic fit, sustainable workload, and scalability. First, she urges business owners with existing offers to decide where the membership will sit in their overall ecosystem. A “front‑end” membership might serve followers who consume free content but never buy high‑ticket programs, giving them structured value and preparing some of them to eventually join a signature offer. Conversely, a “back‑end” membership can serve past clients in an exclusive, higher‑ticket continuity program—monthly calls, ongoing support, and a place to stay connected—while also seeding VIP days, retreats, or new offers.

She also discusses scenarios where the membership is entirely separate from the creator’s main business—for example, a coach who wants to start a gardening or painting membership based on a personal passion. In such cases, she cautions that you will have to build the audience from scratch and cannot assume existing clients will automatically cross over. Throughout, the episode emphasizes the need to be intentional so that memberships create synergy rather than competing with or cannibalizing existing services.

Her second major tip is to be realistic about workload and to “start slow.” Many founders, especially those used to one‑to‑one work, over‑promise: weekly or twice‑weekly calls, constant new content, and heavy personal involvement. They then burn out within three months. Doremieux recommends beginning with a lighter structure, explicitly asking early members for feedback on whether they want more and letting member data—not fear—drive additions. Where members want deeper help, she suggests layering optional VIP upsells, such as one‑to‑one sessions sold only to members, rather than bloating the core offer. She shares an example of a vocal coach client who moved from fully booked one‑to‑one practice into a membership where members access exercises and can book paid sessions as needed; in the marketing, this is framed as “exclusive access” to one‑to‑one work available only to members.

Third, Doremieux insists membership owners must “build for scalability” from the first member. She advises treating member number one as if they were member one thousand by automating onboarding, account creation, and key processes instead of relying on manual work by a virtual assistant. The transcript notes she has seen businesses who own tools capable of automating account creation still delegate it manually out of habit, only to end up overwhelmed when sign‑ups increase. She frames memberships as a long‑term game where it is “not uncommon at all” for successful creators to reach $30K–$50K per month in recurring revenue, but only if they remain scalable, automate routine tasks, and keep their content and support ahead of members’ evolving needs.

The conversation on Nathalie Guest Shows in “Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106” offers a grounded, example‑rich playbook for designing, validating, and scaling memberships that people actually stay in. Doremieux’s focus on recurring problems, co‑creation, strategic positioning, and early automation turns memberships from a vague trend into a disciplined, long‑term business model. For a fuller understanding of her stories, client examples, and nuanced advice, listeners should explore the complete episode at the original page: https://saas.podcastleadflow.com/p/28wt2psj.

Key Takeaways

Key Definitions

Membership business model
Membership business model refers to a recurring revenue structure where customers pay an ongoing fee (usually monthly or yearly) to access evolving value such as content, support, tools, or community, as described by Nathalie Doremieux on Nathalie Guest Shows Ep. 106.
Recurring problem
Recurring problem, in the context of memberships on Nathalie Guest Shows Ep. 106, is an ongoing need or challenge that reappears over time and therefore justifies a recurring solution delivered through a membership rather than a one‑off course.
Interest list
Interest list is a pre‑launch audience of people who have raised their hand to say they are curious about a potential membership idea, which Nathalie Doremieux uses to validate and co‑create offers before building them, as explained in Ep. 106.
Ownership model (in memberships)
Ownership model in memberships, as used by Nathalie Doremieux in the episode, describes a co‑creation approach where early members help shape the offer and therefore feel that the membership is partly “theirs,” increasing engagement and advocacy.
Front-end vs back-end membership
Front-end vs back-end membership, in Doremieux’s framework on Nathalie Guest Shows, differentiates between a lower‑ticket membership that nurtures followers toward higher offers (front‑end) and an exclusive continuity program designed for past clients after they complete a main engagement (back‑end).

Claims & Evidence

Claim

Memberships succeed when they address a recurring problem that needs a recurring solution, not a one‑off issue better suited to a course.

Evidence

In the episode, Nathalie Doremieux repeatedly states that “your idea needs to be some type of recurring problem that requires a recurring solution,” contrasting this with one‑off problems like a single best man speech that naturally lead to short‑term involvement.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025
Claim

Using an interest list and co‑creation process can convert 50–60% of interested prospects into paying founding members.

Evidence

Describing her First Members program, Doremieux reports that when she first tested it, some participants converted 50–60% of their waiting or interest lists into paying members at launch, even though those lists were not large.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025
Claim

Not all successful memberships rely on community; some thrive on recurring content or tools alone.

Evidence

Doremieux cites a watercolor painting membership that offers one new project per month and a kindergarten‑teacher membership that provides downloadable lesson templates, both running successfully without any community component because the recurring value is fresh content and time savings.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025
Claim

Hiring a community manager from within your existing membership can strengthen culture and engagement.

Evidence

In the discussion on scaling communities, Doremieux suggests bringing in a community manager once you reach around 100 members and explicitly says the best candidates are often current members who already embody the membership’s values and vision.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025
Claim

Automating onboarding and account creation from the very first member is critical to making a membership scalable.

Evidence

Doremieux shares that some clients buy tools capable of automatic account creation but still have virtual assistants set up accounts manually, leading to chaos when sign‑ups increase; she advises treating member number one like member one thousand to avoid these bottlenecks.

Source: Episode transcript - full_transcript - Nathalie Guest Shows - "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025 - Nathalie Guest Shows / "Building Successful Memberships: Strategies for Recurring Revenue with Nathalie Doremieux - Ep. 106" / published October 29, 2025

Key Questions Answered

How do I know if my idea is suitable for a membership or just an online course?

In Ep. 106 of Nathalie Guest Shows, Nathalie Doremieux explains that a true membership idea revolves around a recurring problem that needs a recurring solution or ongoing support, whereas a one‑off, finite problem is better suited to a course or program. If your audience needs continuing updates, accountability, or evolving resources—such as AI training in a fast‑changing tech landscape or progressive piano lessons for children over years—that is membership territory; if they can realistically solve the problem once and move on, a course is usually the better fit.

What is the best way to validate a membership idea before building the platform?

On Nathalie Guest Shows, Nathalie Doremieux recommends starting with an interest list and co‑creation rather than jumping into tech or content production: you publicly share your idea in simple terms, invite people who are even mildly interested to join an interest list, and only proceed if you can get people to raise their hand. Once you have that list, you keep them involved—asking what they want, sharing your thinking, and adjusting the concept at the intersection of their desires and what you want to deliver—which led her First Members clients to convert 50–60% of interested people into paying founding members in some launches.

Do I need a community component to run a successful membership?

According to Ep. 106 of Nathalie Guest Shows, you do not always need a community component for a membership to work; what you need is a recurring need that justifies ongoing value. Nathalie Doremieux cites examples like a watercolor painting membership that offers one project per month and a kindergarten‑teacher resource membership that provides downloadable lesson templates—both succeed without community because the main value is new content and time savings rather than peer interaction, although community can be a powerful retention driver when it aligns with member needs.

How can I prevent the wrong people from damaging my membership community?

In the episode, Doremieux stresses that misaligned members can harm both your feedback loop and your existing members’ experience, especially when they join through free trials or overly broad messaging. She advises being explicit about who the membership is and is not for, avoiding offers that attract short‑term problem‑solvers (like only best man speech clients for a speaking club), enforcing clear community rules, and being willing to remove disruptive members, while also recruiting aligned community managers from within your member base as you grow.

How should a membership fit into my existing coaching or service business?

On Nathalie Guest Shows, Nathalie Doremieux suggests deciding whether your membership is a front‑end or back‑end offer in your ecosystem: a front‑end membership can monetize and nurture followers who have not yet bought your main program, preparing some of them to move up, whereas a back‑end membership can provide exclusive continuity support for past clients with monthly calls and community. She also notes that if the membership is in a completely different niche, like a coach wanting to run a gardening membership, you should treat it as a separate line of business that needs its own audience-building.

What workload should I plan for when launching a new membership?

In Ep. 106, Doremieux cautions new membership owners against over‑committing to multiple weekly calls and constant content, because many burn out within three months; instead, she recommends starting with a lean delivery model, then asking members whether they need more and only increasing support where it’s clearly valued. For members who want extra depth, she suggests offering paid VIP options such as one‑to‑one sessions, like her vocal coach client who moved from fully booked one‑to‑one work into a membership with optional paid sessions reserved for members.

When should I hire a community manager for my membership site?

According to Nathalie Doremieux in Nathalie Guest Shows Ep. 106, a good rule of thumb is to consider a community manager once your membership reaches roughly 100 members, especially if community interaction is central to the value. She recommends looking first inside your existing member base for someone who already participates actively and embodies your values, because skills can be trained but deep cultural alignment and understanding of the membership’s vision cannot.

Why is automation so important for scaling a membership business?

The episode emphasizes that treating member number one like member one thousand—by automating account creation, onboarding, and routine processes—is critical to making a membership scalable and sustainable. Nathalie Doremieux notes that creators who leave these steps manual, even when they own capable tools, quickly become overwhelmed as member numbers climb, whereas an automated setup allows some memberships to grow to $30K–$50K per month in recurring revenue without operations breaking down.

Full Episode Transcript
This idea of like predictable income, you know, once you get someone and they pay you every month so you don't start your month at zero was really, you know, appealing to me. You know, they say people join a membership for the content, they stay for the community. I tend to not necessarily agree with that. There is a gray line there. But it's true that community could be the place where that will make people stay longer just because there are these connections, you know, that are being made, it's easier to start slow and say, let's see how that goes. Give me feedback. Do you want more? Should I break this down? Right. And just add as you feel comfortable. This is the Giraffes Don't Eat Steak podcast. The podcast for curious marketers who zig when others zag. This episode, find out why memberships are such a powerful business model for predictable income and sustainable growth and discover the secret to creating a membership people actually stay in. Hello Alex. Hey Erika, how are you doing? I'm good, how are you bud? I'm very well, I'm very well. Awesome, I am so excited that I've invited Natalie to come and join us today. Natalie, welcome to our podcast. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. So for Alex and for our audience, Why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do? Sure. So my name is Nathalie Doremiu. I am half French, half American. I live in the south of France. I've been in business for 20 years with my husband. And we run two businesses. We run the Membership Lab, where we help people build membership recurring income, you know, sharing their expertise. and we also run a podcast lead flow which is a tool to help create conversations with your listeners fantastic so we connected mainly on the membership lab front that's where we connected because we were looking at how we take the marketing detective agency into another stage but But talk to us a little bit about memberships. Why memberships? Yeah, so membership actually came about. So originally, our background is in software engineering, right? Silicon Valley, we worked there for 10 years. And when we moved back to France to start the business, naturally, we started to build websites because, you know, we were tech people. And very quickly, we saw that e-learning was really a place where people were more willing to actually invest just because they were selling something, right? And there was not so much competition. So we went into e-learning and through learning about e-learning, I found that model of membership. and that idea of recurring income, you sell once and if you deliver, then people stay and pay you months after months after months. I got really attracted to it, especially because I'm not wired as an entrepreneur. Like I'm not the risk taker that has the crazy ideas. So this idea of like predictable income, you know, once you get someone and they pay you every month so you don start your months at zero was really appealing to me And through that I realized that a lot of people have an expertise actually we all have a membership idea inside of us because we are all either have an expertise we've learned at school at work we are parents we are partners wife husband you know like we have kids you know like we are brothers sisters like we have learned things through life that we could help people with. And you can translate that into a membership, you know, an online way of getting a community together on a topic that you can share. So that's really how the idea really came kind of like naturally from the people that we were meeting. And I just found like this is one of the easiest model to run an online business, especially when you're not like doing like a big coaching or something like that. yeah it's it's uh i mean memberships are it's a booming business in terms of a business model right i mean we just have to look at things like streaming platforms we've gone from we've gone from owning one thing to multiple accounts right and and it it it works it works it's a very very good model it works very very well but i guess my question for you is that um as it becomes more and more popular and lots of people are signing up to lots of different memberships how do you what what are the key things you need to do to get people invested in your membership and for it not to fall down the list of memberships that we are all signed up to yeah so great question and actually this is um unlike an online course you know where people buy a course and they could buy on impulse right oh i see all these people successful and then you buy and then the course owner is going to say well i'm successful because see how much money i made but they never say i'm successful see how many people got results from my course they never say that they measure success based on money the problem with membership is that if you don't deliver people leave right so you have to deliver so so the number one key for a membership especially when it's so popular is to make sure that your idea is a membership idea and not a course or something else. That means it needs to be some type of recurring problem that requires a recurring solution or a community, right? At the end of the day, people will stay if they get results. The more you're going to make it unique and about you, your framework, your way of doing things, that's why they will choose you over somebody else right i like that a lot a recurring problem right because if it's a one-off problem then it's a course then it could be a course exactly so you cannot turn everything into a membership because the success of the membership really relies on how people stay and for people to stay they need to get results so in in this particular context of learning can you give can you give us a real example of a reoccurring problem that requires a membership versus a course oh sure they are like ton of them so um the one that comes to mind you know like a client that we released i don know maybe three four months ago now um ai for non-tankies it's a membership that teaches people ai ai is a moving target it always evolves so if you want to be uh an ai trainer if you want to she actually has a certification program we've put a certification program in there where you basically get trained and your cpd cdp certified you know in the uk yeah to be an ai trainer and you can go into corporates and do trainings and things like that it evolves all the time so nobody has the time to curate all the tools and all the things so that's her job that's what Heather is doing right she provides all this training so she's curating content and she keeps them focused on this is this is what is new this is what's working this is what I've tried she gives them accelerators and she gives them a vision of how because she was there she actually is still doing trainings at the moment The goal is that she stops doing that, right? But she's showing them how she's building or training, you know, like down to the slides, down to the offer and things like that. This is an ongoing thing where people are going to need to or want that sounding board, right? And especially in AI, things that are moving so fast. Other things like social media, because social media is moving all the time, right? So if you were to have a membership that is going to be about Instagram and LinkedIn and TikTok, I would not go there because you can't possibly be on all fronts on things that are moving so fast. But if you are in a membership that's specifically about Instagram and they're running all these tests and all this, you know, A-B testing and things like that and giving you the data so you don't have to do that and it saves you time and they keep a pulse on what is going on for you and you're surrounded by other people that also share what they're doing, then you've got a winner. right even better niche it to a very specific audience instagram for for fashion completely the more absolutely um the the more you're going to niche like that the more you're going to find the more your message the the easier your message is going to be because you're going to be really able to really understand uh where exactly they're at another one totally other spectrum and that might surprise you, learning the piano online. Busy kids do piano. Busy mom do piano. It's been a membership that's running really, really well. It's been for years. It's Carly Seifert. And it's an ongoing thing because kids, you know, they learn. So they graduate. They get like badges. So they are Mozart and Beethoven and things like that, as they progress through the thing, then there is a little recital where the parents record them and then they can have their own thing where others can watch each other like it it an ongoing thing right there no end there no end to your learning curve there exactly there not really you know an end to learning and you want to think about that there are there are two things you know um uh inside the membership so so you've got the content you're learning right but there is also everything else that is around, you know, what makes you do things, the accountability, the support, right? Having that safe space, that community. You know, they say people join a membership for the content, they stay for the community. I tend to not necessarily agree with that. There is a gray line there. But it's true that community could be the place where that will make people stay longer just because there are these connections, you know, that are being made. Some big memberships, even people stay because there is a microeconomy. So you join and you get your clients from that community. I mean, I don't know if you're familiar with Female Entrepreneur Association. It's a community. I think it's maybe 60 pound, 50, 60 pound amounts. it's like five six thousand women it's a micro economy some people are members just because they talk and they get their clients from inside so they are never going to leave because that's that's where they make their money right so it's um like so many different uh market you know and ideas and it's really about identifying what is that member journey right From the time where they're starting to where they want to go. And even there are memberships that naturally might end after 12 months. You know, it's still considered a membership, you know, if it's over 12 months, because after that, you have an opportunity to offer them something else. You can upsell them to a mastermind, right? Or they can be good candidates for retreats that you're running, right? Or group coaching or something else. okay so memberships don't have to be everlasting it can be as if you plan it it can be for a set period with the with the goal at the end absolutely so so for example and people can stay so there are things where you don't control like for example uh there there is one that is about um helping raising your kids right your kids you might have one two three kids so you might say i'm going to use it for like you know um all my children so maybe it's going to span over you know like several years i'm thinking of um jessica donovan she runs natural super kids and we just uh kind of like recreated the journeys and we integrated ai some agents for parents to to help them find what they were looking for. And this is for parents, right? So you're not gonna be parent all your life, right? There is a period of time where if your child has issues with eczema or diabetes, or they're struggling to eat, or they have like different health issues like this, she can help, right? So it could be that they have a problem right now. a problem gets fixed, right? And then they will naturally leave, right? So a member leaving a membership is not necessarily a bad thing. It could be that they got what they wanted, right? But it's making me think, I mean, there's two parts. The one is you really have to be clear on the value that you're going to be providing. Because I think your example of people staying for the community, the value of what you're paying that community has to be worth more than that because if the content is not that so if you went in for the content but now the content is dropped down maybe you know that stuff now you don't need to know it anymore then the community has to be strong enough to make you feel like it's worthwhile or you have to plot it that your content remains consistently valuable until there's a natural lifestyle change to this person that they no longer want to be part of your community right absolutely yeah i think it's not i think so many people go in thinking oh let's start a community and then what create a facebook group click and say come join and they haven't put any thought in do you find do you find that yeah absolutely so the i mean the the the case of the Facebook group is like the best, you know, case to illustrate that is that you're looking at what people are doing. And you're like, Oh, that sounds easy. Facebook is free. Let's create a community, right? And sometimes people say, I am my audience. No, you're not. You're one step ahead. You were you're not. Okay. So if you think you are your audience, you're not otherwise you wouldn't be doing this for them right and um creating also going from free you you know you say i'm going to create a free facebook group a community and then it's big enough i'm going to start charging for it how do you think that's going to go right so what i've done you know i don't know if i've talked about that um before erica but i had this program it's called first members and i created it because i was tired of people launching memberships that were not aligned with what they wanted to do and that were just going because i'm the expert i know what they need and it's very different than what they want right and are they willing to pay for it and they were at this idea of working with people that are at this level but their message is talking to these people, right? And we were like, okay, in this program, I'm going to do things differently. And people were like, okay, when are we building the site? When are we doing something? No, no, no, no, no. We're going to start looking at your idea, right? Pitch me your idea. And I was like, you don't sound excited. You don't sound convinced by it, right? And in this program, there are a couple of people that never launched a membership. Why? because it was not really in the vision that what they had. This idea of having a lot of people and having to maintain that for how long and things like that. That was not appealing So a lot of people are going the membership route because they think it easy and it like well you know once they in they just going to pay and it a smaller amount so i could not sell my course but maybe your membership will be easier to sell absolutely not the way to look at it and i said you don't have to invest money you have to start talking about your idea and you create what i call an interest list you get people to raise their hand and say say I'm interested. And at the beginning, you don't have to say much because you don't know much. You say, I'm thinking about creating this thing. This is going to be for these people. And this is the problem I'm going to solve. And this is kind of like my way of doing things. If you are remotely interested in hearing more as I am developing the idea, join the interest list or click on the link if you send this to your list. And then you're going to have a list of people that do that. Now, if you're not able to do that, don't go any further. Because if you can't do that, how do you expect people to pay later? You're not able to get people to raise their hand for free. So that means you have to go outside. Like if you want to validate the idea, okay, my audience, they don't respond to that. That's okay. Maybe they are here for a different offer. That's not what they want. Then you have to go and tap into other people's audience, right? So maybe you get interviewed on podcast, you know, as a guest and you start talking about it. You have to find ways to get in front of these people, right? Now, once you have that, that's only the start, right? You see interest. Now, what is really important is you want to create something that they will buy and something you'll be excited about, right? And the only way to do that is to co-create. right collaborate with them this is what I'm thinking so you share with them the process so you're building momentum right you're they're following you you ask them for feedback you know like what are the things you would want to see and as this progresses they start to feel like it's they're part of it already you know they are contributing to the creation and you align it with what you want to do right so things that you're like I don't want to do that I don't want to do that right then then you stay away from that and at the intersection of what they tell you and what you love to do is the membership idea that when you open the doors they'll be saying yes I'm buying this they are like buying into their own thing right and of course you give them like a great offer like a price that nobody else will ever have they're going to get the VIP treatment for the first three months because you're going to be really more present you just to make sure it works for them and it works for you before you validate the idea and then when you open the door to the market so you're going to refine your messaging and stuff like that when you open the door what do you have you have a foundation of members that feel like oh it's it's my membership right so they'll be your strongest advocate They've been active in the community. They participated in creating this thing It called the you know in in um the it called the ownership model right it like the kind of like feeling it there it it theirs right and it a lot easier when then you have to bring in new people when they see that there is already a lot of some people in there that are actually really excited about the membership i absolutely love that it's pure gold so and and that's when i say you cannot fail if you do this you cannot fail because you don't spend a dime on anything if you don't get in front of the people and and if you don't know how to get in front of the people that's where you spend the money getting help in marketing in messaging to say i have an idea around this i need help to craft my message and go in the right places get into the the partnership the podcast whatever that is to get that message in front of the right people and see if they are interested absolutely it makes me think of during covert um in the village where i lived there's a membership that started up called pot gang it's and but it's about planting it's about planting vegetables and stuff at home and literally he did what you said if I'm thinking back now that's and he got me on board because during COVID like many people I started planting vegetables at home right like oh yeah why not I'm home this weather was great and kept it going that every month you get a pack with seeds and it's got the instructions and you can choose whether you want the pot with it or you want the soil or no you just want the seeds but it's got um and what he's done lately that i've noticed because i've i've stayed on track i'm loving it is um he's gotten us involved in designing the little labels like you know what do you want because he has fun names so it's you know betty is the you know betty bluebell or whatever like fun name like getting people to help design the little stickers so that you can label your pots You know what they are, designing the little booklets that the instructions come in, is created. You can now, there's upsell opportunities, little speeds, and you can buy all the utensils now, watering cans and gloves and whatever you need. Not just that. It's really clever, but it's a membership. And the way he did it was absolutely co-creation and continues to be co-creation. Like, what seeds do you want next? Like, is we choosing tomato types for next year now? Like, you know, here's 12 types of tomatoes. Which ones do you think we should put into our seed packs? Yeah, exactly. I mean, showing members like what is coming next is a great teaser. It's a great way for people to stay. But also say, you know, I have three ideas for next month. ABC, let's vote. And the one that gets the most vote is the next one. So when you involve people like this, you get this engagement, you know, with the community, with the content, because it's not about I'm sure you've heard this. It not about like the content and how many videos they get and things like that People don want to watch more videos They want results or transformation or learning you know whatever it is that that your membership brings right so the more you involve them like this it's also like you don't even have to come up with all the ideas remember like they tell you what they want you know what they need and it's for you to translate that into something that the way you teach it the way you give it to them that is going to allow them to have that that transformation that learning i was actually doing a bit of research recently in quite a lot of research actually just around like creating offers and i came across like a um someone who's talking about uh creating books but creating instructional books this is not a membership but it's kind of the same principle what we're talking about at the beginning and they had an idea for an instructional and they had but weren't quite quite sure of kind of what angle that instructional should take so before they actually wrote it they did lots of lots of ads saying with with a mock-up of the book but with like five different books kind of the same thing but very different messaging along the books and they had um uh different exact like different outcomes you will achieve this different outcome on each one of them and just sent those out um on i think it was on facebook or instagram or something like that a building a list of people are interested but b seeing um most importantly what is the thing that people actually value like what am i going to get from this book and then so you've got your answer and then you just then you just um just go straight into that uh into that same way talking about the community like you might have an idea of what people value but you don't actually know until you start asking and putting out some kind of mock-up proposals and seeing which one gets the most traction and then run with that one and keep those people engaged all the time exactly because not all memberships have a community you know they're they're like memberships where uh there is one for example where that is all about teaching you how to paint watercolor you know with watercolor and you have all these designs that you can choose from and there is one per month like one of project like if you want to give yourself like one goal you know i want to paint this this month and you would stay just because every month you have a new goal right like if you're working on like yourself um you know on yourself and then you want this time calved out then this is your permission basically to have that time for yourself each week right doesn't require a membership a community people don't necessarily want to talk to each other they go for this right another one was that was some years ago but for for like kindergarten teachers what was it called kinder i can't remember but basically it had a whole bunch of templates and free lessons that the kindergarten teacher could download to help them to do their work and they would just you basically they pay for being able to download certain subjects and every month they could only download free so they cannot come and like take everything right so you'd imagine that by in two years they'll have everything which is okay right no requirements like there was no community I don't think there is one either because it was all about giving them something that saves them time and give them less stress because they don't have to think about it. But it's that recurring need that you spoke about at the beginning, right? Exactly. It's a recurring need. Absolutely. The need there is not to talk to other people about it. That's not the need. But the need is, oh, I want this new template every month. That's what I want. That's the recurring need. And I guess there's also power in trying to understand the real benefits people get from a membership that are continuous rather than the end goal. So, for example, when you're selling a membership, someone might buy the end, like, I know, the piano one, for example, like they're buying the piano membership so that they can get to a certain level. but that certain level is not going to be achieved tomorrow or in month or in month one or a month six it's going to be in year three or four for example exactly yeah and then so but you're selling but you have to sell that you will be able to play i know play in front of your family and a little party whatever that's exactly that that is exactly like two years or something but you also need to understand what are the ongoing benefits they're going to have and i can't think right now what for the piano but let's let's say something like um a boot like a gym boot camp i know that's not an online one you say um in six months six months boot camp six months time you're going to have the beach body for for the summer but that's not straight away but what are the benefits they're getting along the way and that would be the community for example you're meeting new people you've you're improving your social life and stuff stuff like that but when you're selling the membership you're not selling that those community benefits you're selling the end goal but you also have to be aware of what they will be getting during that process so that you can well so that's like the that's like the value add content that you're doing that you're giving that you need to be aware of that you can prepare once they are enrolled into your into your membership absolutely because it's not so i mean they they they love to see the angle i mean i love the example of there was this membership i can't remember the name of the person but it's called maestro online i think and it has piano but it has other instruments as well and one of the tagline is like want to be able to play the piano at your daughter's wedding yeah i love that right so for anyone that's like oh there is one thing i'd love to be able to to do this for that like that's a an emotional connection right but then for the parents it's like we have it's something ongoing it creates consistency in the in the process right so it's not like we're gonna you do it gonna do one lesson here and one lesson there and one lesson there it's like it's it's that consistency that it creates in the routine right like i i say often like if you can get your membership to be part of a routine for people like whether this is yoga or things like that you golden Yeah because routine is by definition something that people are being consistent on right and don want to break it makes me think a bit about toastmasters that i belong to which is a membership really and the reason you join is to improve your public speaking and gain confidence etc and there's a set meeting that you pitch up and you get to practice right and that's ongoing but sometimes the wrong person joins and i and um it's people who want to do a best man speech and the reason i say they're the wrong person is because they come they practice their best man speech but then when it's done it's over and and they've moved on right so they haven't they're not from a membership perspective I mean, of course, we as Toastmasters, we love everyone to come and we help everyone. But from a membership perspective, your messaging is quite important. If they went out and said, we help people with best men's speeches, you're going to have a very fast turnover membership. Right. Like people are going to come because, you know, by the time you heard you're doing the best man's speech to the time you're doing it is probably one or two months. Like it's it's it's a quick period. And then then what? Right. um so that's not the tagline it's not about come and learn how to do best man speeches because that would draw the wrong crowd so i think in terms of what you're sharing now is also something for people to think about is your messaging can draw crowd right that can be crowd but make sure it's the right crowd that is looking for the continuous long-term benefits if you really want that to be what your membership is about. I suppose you could start a membership just for best man's speeches, but knowing it would be short. Yeah, I think this is so key. And that's another point that's very different than online courses because online courses, you do a launch, it works, it doesn't work. Well, you learn from it and you do your next one. In the membership, if you're bringing the wrong people, the wrong members, and you get feedback from people that are not the right members, then it's really like, it's going to really throw you into something where that nothing good can come out of that, right? You want to get feedback from your ideal member. So you want to be super clear about who it is, who it's not for. And you don't want definitely those members that are here just because it was a free trial or something like that. That's the big danger of like free trial members. It works in some markets. It doesn't work in others. So I'm not going to say should not do that. But it's like take it with a grain of salt because you have to really make sure that you always speak like you said to your ideal member. Otherwise, you're going to get feedback from people that you don't want to hear about. and and also the impact on your existing good members right oh yeah i've seen that happen it takes one yeah yeah they they cause disruption or start maybe in the you know in the community saying the wrong thing upsetting people so you know it can it can really disrupt your good community if you bring wrong apples in Absolutely And that why it key really to be able to measure that and let people go, you know, if they are not abiding by the rules and things like that, because people will tell you, you know, it just takes one person to make the conversation really, really odd, really weird, quickly. Yeah, absolutely. Fantastic. so natalie what are your three tips for someone if they're starting if they're sitting here thinking ah i really want to start a membership yeah give us your first second and third steps that you think they should do so the first thing and this is something we haven't talked about is if you have an existing business right and you're thinking of a membership then you need to think about how does this membership how is this membership going to fit with what you're already doing am i doing the membership to get a pool of people that are going to feed another program or offer or do i want to create a membership for people after they've completed working with me in some capacity. So do I want to create a front-end membership? So maybe I have some followers, right? I have people that follow me. They watch my, you know, they sign up to my freebie, but they never join my program, my coaching or whatever that is, right? Or they never buy my services. So I have all these people. Can I create a membership that really leverages my time, give them some value and I get some recurring income? And the goal of this membership is to get them ready for the thing. So I'm strategic about what my membership is about, right? Or am I a coach who's been working, you know, coaching people for 20 years, and now I have a good, solid base of past clients, and maybe I want to create an exclusive back-end membership for my past clients. It's a bit more high ticket. we meet once a month they all know like how i work they've been through my program so they share some stuff right so that's one way to keep supporting your past clients as they've gone with you that's a way to get recurring income that's a way to continue to support them so you stay top of mind so if you have another program or if you have a retreat you sell them vip days that's if you want to continue to support people so look at the intention the membership or maybe it's something completely new right you're a coach and suddenly you want to teach painting because that or gardening because that's something you're really really good at right that in that sense it's completely separate right so you have to start at the beginning building the audience and all that stuff right so it's i think being strategic about where does it fit so you can really create a synergy you know with all your offers and um i think that's like the first step like where does it fit with what i do already do you think some people you think some people have a business uh that is already a membership business and they don know it and I give you an example like a marketing agency You have a retainer Isn that a membership I don't consider it a membership in the sense that it's done for you. Right. That in the, to me, in the membership, there is this notion of scalability for you. that means whether i have one to many not one to one i have five thousand then um i can do it you bring me five thousand people tomorrow it's all automated we're all good they're all going to get great experience right so that's where i see the there is a and and that's really important actually the second thing is like to not get carried away especially if you're used to working one-on-one and say oh my gosh I'm so excited about this we're going to do a call a week or two calls a week and then I'm going to do this and then every week I'm going to deliver and then three months in you're burned out I'm like this is so much work no it's easier to say start slow and say let's see how that goes give me feedback do you want more should I break this down right and just add as you feel comfortable right now rather quickly if you're going to be community based I think when you reach like maybe 100 it could be nice to bring in a community manager yeah now the best place to find your community manager you know where that is in your community your members right identify the one that are like like she gets me like she she gets the values she gets the vision of why i'm doing it all right i say hey you know would you be interested you know like to pop in you know like things like that right this is where you find your best people there are skills that can be learned people that align with your values and your vision that cannot be learned absolutely right so it's they're actually closer than you think that's been they're already probably doing quite a lot of the work anyway because they're great absolutely without you know being like officially the person right so and they'll be like so um um yeah i mean they'll feel like um like on top of the world right that you're even like considering it like that they will feel seen right so uh they'll probably do a great job. Absolutely. I love you. Your second tip is think through the workload. I recently made a mistake. I got all excited and launched a LinkedIn newsletter, but I mistakenly said weekly because it was exciting. But now I'm like, oh, it's every week. I have to write a new one. Like, why didn't I just say monthly? yeah and you know and i love writing something that goes with that is that don't think that people are going to get the same results at the same pace as working with you one-on-one absolutely you're really clear about that right and the way you solve that if you're like yeah but i can help them with so much more offer VIP offer like extra paid one session things like that I have a client she's a vocal coach she used to do one-on-one too many clients she said I cannot take more I have to refuse people that's a horrible thing to say in a business she we created a membership it was really hard to get people to transition from working one-on-one to a membership they're like no we want you Ev and so what we did is in all in the messaging it said the membership is all the exercises and then if you want sessions you book sessions and you pay per sessions but you pay as it becomes available it's exactly the same thing as saying it's a membership and then you pay extra for one-on-one but the fact that they are not joining a membership they are like joining an opportunity to work with a one-on-one only people in the membership and you have access to all these extra resources so it's exclusive access to working with me one-on-one you have to be a member so i get recurring i build more tools and practice you know they practice the vocal cord it's like super technical right she's this is for singers and and professionals so super technical and then the people that want to book calls like older clients that are like no and she doesn't want to use them they're like well sign up to this thing and then book you know it's a brilliant way to tap into scarcity yeah exactly that's the only way and she's like you know she's got two kids now she just was about to have one when when we did this and it took a you know it took some sometimes you know like this is something we were working one-on-one actually uh with her where like she's like you know like i still have people they are not ready it's like well let's let's change the wording right let's change the approach and and just say you know like this is an exclusive way of working with me that that's how it works you know like just sign up here you want to work with me sure that how it works and and boom that worked love it And your third tip Natalie what your third tip Well I think the third tip is really to look at it as a not a get rich quick. Okay. Again, if I compare with online courses, what do we compare? How much did we make last time? Not how many people did I sign up? not how many people completed the course. Because we say you have lifetime access, so you have all the time. Here, we have to look into how many members do I have coming in? How many are leaving? Right? And you have to look at it. You know, ideally, you want this to grow like this, right? So you're going to get more and more members. And you always have to make sure that you stay in scalability, right? So automate things. So people that would say, I will automate this, you know, like creating the account when I have, you know, I'm not going to do that for number number number one. Treat number number one like if it was number thousand. You've got to have your thing, not only because it's going to become a nightmare when you're going to get busy. Oh, my gosh, I have people signing up. We have to create all these accounts. There are still people doing this manually. believe it or not they purchased the tool that could do it but they have their VA who said she can do it we didn't get that actually we could automate that stuff right so you come in after that and you look like a hero because suddenly everything happens you know automatically so built for scalability if you're going to do this this is a long-term game right there are people that make 30, 40, 50K a month with memberships. It's not uncommon at all. They won't talk about it, but it's because it's that consistency, right? That consistency and getting the right people and making sure that you stay current and ahead of the curve from them, you know? And I think that that would be, you know, my strategy, like make it scalable and make it automated from the first time Oh I love it Natalie someone out there is listening to this podcast going I want to start a membership I need help Where can they find you? How do they get hold of you? Yeah, so the easiest way is to go to themembersiplab.com slash consult and just book a call. And then, yeah, it's a clarity call and then we can talk about, I can ask the questions, the right questions to see, to get them to see if a membership is actually what they really, really are looking for. So people are surprised when we hop on calls. It's like, I'm not salesy at all. I won't even tell you what it is to work with me unless I know I can help. But I need you to be motivated because I've built too many memberships that never got sold. Oh, one thing I'll tell you is, you know, my first members program, when I tested it, the first time I did it, I got people converting their waiting list, their interest list to 50 and 60%, 60% into paying. That's fabulous. So that tells you that it doesn't need to be big, but it needs to be people that are the right people and that you keep the connection with. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Alex what was your big takeaway today? That's a really difficult question because there was there were so many gems in there um I think um I think about I would probably just talk about the process of building your membership and getting to your membership so um if you have a membership idea put it out to the public and see you know float a few ideas see which ones start building traction and and create that list and bring them along your journey and make them make them your community uh um advocates so they're the ones who are there and they love what you're doing and in there probably is your community manager that you're going to hire two years down the line um so i so i really i really like that and i also didn didn really think about like the difference between um the kind of one of when i was thinking membership maybe membership is anyone who just paying every month but no it actually some when you can scale to a larger level rather than just doing the one-on-one that's a true true membership i think yeah exactly awesome metley any last words for our audience um no i mean i'll just say you know But like I said at the beginning, I think we all have a membership or two inside of us. But it's really about digging deeper and really looking into like, is this really aligning? Like, where do I see myself in five years? Do I see myself running something like this? I mean, for some people, it sounds so easy for some clients. We've built over three, close to 400. I've worked with close to 400 people one-on-one. so that's why I'm like much more like people are surprised that I'm like I don't think you're ready you know like I don't you haven't sold me on your idea like I could take your money but I don't think I would be doing you a good service so I think it's really like and it's a difficult exercise to do but like what it is that I really want love it because when when you know and when it's aligned it's simpler we don't procrastinate as much yeah strive for perfection i mean everything becomes easier and flows absolutely thank you so much natalie it's been an absolute pleasure having you on here today you're welcome thank you so much thank you thank you alex and Alex it's fun as always and I'll see you again see you later bye everyone thanks for listening to Giraffes Don't Eat Steak where curious marketers zig when others zag if you enjoyed the episode share it with someone who loves great marketing conversations and don't forget to follow review or drop us a note we love hearing from fellow curious minds and if your own marketing's feeling a bit tangled check out our marketing power hour it's a focused one-to-one session designed to help you get clarity and momentum. Just go to themarketingdetective.com and book your slot. Until next time, keep zigging.

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